SPLIT: Swastikas

[squirrelmaster]

Ok i'll try to make this breif.
The nazis got into power by campaigning against the conditions imposed by the versaille treaty at the end of the first world war(which they blamed the jews for losing),they then went on to reduce unemployment by starting a massive rearmourment programme(against the treaty) to fulfill hitlers dreams of more "living room" for the german people,basicaly invading the surrounding countries and kicking out "inferior" races.
The swastica was the symbol hitler chose for the national socialist party and therefore this is what it represents to say otherwise is foolish.
As i understand the origonal symbol is actualy the reverse of the nazi symbol and is still used quite alot by the japanese in a religious context.


Just my veiws mark.

 

[willymaxter@sbcglobalenet]

It's been used in both directions since just about ever. The word swastika originally comes form Sanskrit:

The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.


Everyone from the Hindu's (swastika) and Ancient Greeks (tetraskelion) and the Native Americans (anyone speak Lakota?) to the Buddhist's (Wan) and the Finnish Air Force. Even the 45th infantry division of the U.S. Army had it on their shoulder patches at one point.

But again to underscore the relativity of the swastika in use in Izzues ad campaign and on the majority of t-shirts here in Hong Kong... they are using a Nazi swastika... along with the symbolism that Hitler outlined in Mein Kampf:



To attempt to argue as Maverick is - that the Nazi swastika worn on clothing as 'fashion' and in used in ad campaigns is 'no big deal' and that people are simply overreacting shows a deep misunderstanding of history and of the way the swastika is regarded by so many people aware of its connotations in 20th century history.

 

[LollyP]

Yes, but if you read my post, you would see I was not quoting you, did not mention Izzue, merely people who choose to display swastikas.



The slight difference now being that there is no danger of Neo Nazis coming to power and committing mass genocide, because they are so few, and because the world has learnt a lesson from the great wars. There's just a small difference between some guy wearing a swastika-emblazoned jacket and a country amassing hundreds of thousands of soldiers.



Well you come off as a holier-than-thou smart-beep who uses the phrase 'LOL' far too much in your subtle insults to people on this forum.

I can understand why the Nazi symbol might offend someone. But that's tough. Chavs offend me, but they mind their business, I mind mine.



So you exclaim 'puhleezee' in rebuttal to my point that "the Nazi regime was not just about racial genocide" yet in the next sentence back up my statement by saying "it was one of the central pillars of the policies".
Thanks.



I'm well aware of the Nazi's policies, having studied them extensively. Hitler came to power in 1933, yet the death camps weren't made or tested until 1941. That's 8 years in which the Nazis advised the Jews to leave. So we see that racism was indeed a pillar of the Nazi ideology but genocide was not, not until 1941. You should research things like this before you spout off about stuff you don't know about with inaccurate statements, like you did about steroids not so long ago.



Grow up mate. I suppose me even daring to argue against you over historical fact will make me a Nazi sympathiser now, lol. I expect nothing less of you.

 

[SaraConners]

-- err... LOL!

Don't bring your insecurities about the usage of the word LOL into this. When someone trys to seperate the Nazi swastika from Nazi history or policies.. then yes it's a laughable as it is ignorant.



Hilarious. Good approach - brilliant response to the issue of using Nazi images, propaganda to flog fashion. Again.. akin to Ostriches.




What other policies did they have that had more lasting effect than genocide? No one is out there remembering the Nazis as great graphic designers. Except maybe yourself. BWHAHAHAAAA!!





BWAHAHAHAAA... so the Nazi's waited a bit to actually move on to wholesale genocide. Wow.. great consolation.. Yep those Nazi's weren't so bad after all were they? LOL! Sheesh we should have invited Hitler and his henchmen over for a round of drinks.

PPPPFFFFFT!!!!!!!!!

Argueing minutae such as the date of the implementation of genocide by the Nazi's in order to somehow show that 'they were not as bad as everyone makes them out' is pathetic.

As for the steroids thing.. LOL! Looks like your apologist arguement for the Nazi regime is starting to fall apart... so best to switch the attention... care for some cheese to go with your whine?

If I remember correctly some kid was interested about working out and you chimed in with suggestions of steroids... lol... on the health and fitness forum. Then you got in a rage when I suggested the roids were maybe not the best idea for him... a case of roid rage? Maybe... LOL!

LOL!



z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-z.. hunh what? The stance you've taken speaks for itself.
No one put any words in your mouth... nor did anyone help you ram your foot down it either You get to take all the credit.



Ok cool guy... here's one that should be in your closet... yeah real 'cool' ... a real lady killer... pimp on down to your local pub in that and see how far it gets you.....PFFFTTTT!!!

:

 

[agawkanada]

Maverik,

here's two guys you can look up to since you think wearing swastikas look so cool..

 

[chato]

he's a real sauve cat...

 

[GabrielP]

For the third, time, you are the only person out of you and I to mention 'propoganda to flog fashion'.




Employment for a start, without this people would never have voted them into power. You don't seriously believe a country would vote a party into power if their sole policy was racial genocide, now that my hyperactive friend, is laughable.




I see you missed the point entirely. You claimed the Nazi regime was based on racial genocide, I just proved it wasn't. Not happy about it? What can I say..tough!




Who said 'they were not as bad as everyone makes them out'? Certainly not me, you sure do enjoy putting words into people's mouths and making up fantasy replies to them don't you?

I'll re-iterate my point, just so it sinks in, the Nazis did not have a sole policy of racial genocide



Lol, what apologist argument? You're fantasising mate. Just because I pulled you up on your poor historical knowledge does not make me a Nazi apologetic, except in your mind!



Nice try, but no, nForce suggest a steroid cycle, you then chimed in with ludicrous comments such as 'johnson shrinks to the size of a cocktail sausage' and 'lance and drain your gynecomastia'. Here is the thread in question.

I mentioned the thread because it's another example of you talking utter garbage about something you clearly don't know enough about.

Roid rage, lol, no, not yet.




The stance I've taken is nowhere but in your head.

 

[PremP]

Maverick,

Take look at the images posted that got this whole discussion rolling - if that's not using Nazi symbolism to flog fashion then you'd better get your eyes checked.

You came out and said that you thought swastikas and eagles on clothing looked 'cool'. And that you didn't think that there was anything wrong with such... and that people were looking for an exscuse to whine and should mind their own business... LOL... go figure.

Kids wearing Nazi swastikas on clothing in Hong Kong or Japan- pretty ignorant. Ignorant of what? Ignorant of the history associated with this particular version of the symbol. That's as sad as it is pathetic. It shows a callous disregard for those who suffered and those who gave their life trying to put an end to that suffering.

So...

Stop with the apologetics for the Nazi regime

Stop with the attempts to rewrite history

Stop with the Nazi's weren't so bad stuff

It's a sorry and tired exscuse for arguement. One of the most memorable thing about the Nazi's was???

Their genocide program. Their genocide policy far outlasted all of their other policies... so while you can try to apply your apologist agenda to Nazis history.. it still doesn't wash... and the rest of the world had already made up it's mind long before you were born.

As for the 'steroid' issue... you suggested Ikken try a steroid cycle.
BWHAAHAHAHAHAA... good going genius.. not only is it illegal in many places it's got a plethora of health problems associated with it... some of which I noted in the original post. You need to head on over the beefcake forum. This ain't it.

The biggest problem that I can see about it...

You still have your panties in a knot about it...

Thank you for your contribution to this thread Maverick..

we now understand that you think...


A) the Nazi regime wasn't so bad after all - I mean after all Genocide wasn't their only pillar of policy... sheesh they didn't even manage to get it into full swing for a couple of years.

B) People who are against using Nazi propaganda and symbolism are really just whiners who should mind their own business

C) That swastikas on clothing look 'cool' and that the Nazis should be rememberd for their great graphics abilities over and above their policies which endorsed and enacted genocide.

C) Steroids are OK for teenagers in martial arts


Wow, you are really Schultz and Klink all rolled into one.

Brilliant!

 

[maccapacca]

I can't believe i've just seen someone trying to defend the nazi party. As if the skinheads at the Dresden protests were wearing swastikas to signify their support for 'low unemployment'.

Maverick are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? i find it hard to believe anyone could be so naive.

By making nazi symbolism acceptable you also take a step towards making the ideology socially acceptable. Despite you trying to argue that nazis weren't so bad, for instance that they only resorted to genocide because the jews didn't move out when they were told to, this would be a very bad thing, as Germany itself proved. The only way to ensure such things don't happen again in the future is to keep them socially unacceptable. And if that means a few ignorant/spiteful idiots on the street get abused i couldn't care less.

 

[AlexisInfectious®]

As a Hindu symbol, it is used a great deal in India for example. The problem being that it does seem questionable when a white guy wears one. As for claiming its Hindi significance, I think to fully understand its place in society and culture you would have to be Hindu as even they have no real explaination as to where it comes from or what it means.


http://www.hindubooks.org/sudheer_birodkar/hindu_history/omkar.html


....and this has what to do with dodgy kanji tats????

 

[hollisterbaby193]

But I never made a reference to using it to flog fashion, this is in your head and not on this forum.



I think the design looks cool yes. If this makes me a Nazi apologetic to you then you are the one with the problem.



Strangely, the people I saw in Japan did not seem to care. These items, including patches, officers caps etc, were sold freely on public stalls and I never saw any indictation of a complaint. Possibly because they have better things to do than have cheese with their whine



Apologetics - in your head.

Attemps to re-write history - you did this, I corrected you with factual knowledge.

Nazis weren't so bad stuff - in your head.



Well done on those paragraphs. The thing is, I never disagreed with you. You are replying to and arguing against posts by me that never existed.

I consider you calling me a Nazi apologetic as a personal insult, considering it has no basis. I've noticed you tend to take the piss a lot, so it isn't suprising, I knew you were going to post some tripe like this.




No I didn't, nForce did. Try reading the thread. Wait, I'll make it simple for you;














I think even you can understand it, but if you need me to I'll paste it another couple of times.




Of which were utter garbage, showing you know less about steroids than you do about the Nazi party. Give me a study showing steroids 'shrink your johnson' or that gynecomastia is 'lanced and drained'. You can't lance and drain gynecomastia because well, it isn't pus for a start, it's glandular tissue and fat.




They're all in your head mate, now you are openly lying.

I'm sorry to break this to you...but you are a childish troll. I suggest you actually get a clue about what you want to start an argument over in future before starting to type, whether it be medical conditions, the effects of testosterone, or modern history, because you've talked a lot of smack with zero factual support. I disagree with you on your narrow-minded, inaccurate view of history and anabolic-androgenic steroids, so that makes me a 'nazi apologetic' and a 'beefcake'. Whatever, grow up!



This seems rather rich now, doesn't it? I have no reason to believe you have read any of my posts!



JaykayD, why don't you read my posts. Go over them carefully, engage your brain, come back and quote me where I was 'trying to defend the Nazi party'.

I think you two need to come off your zealous crusades now and calm down.

 

[oxo_07]

Or maybe they don't really care about a bunch of gaijin dying? It's typical of the kind of casual racism the japanese seem to get away with.
Seriously, shut up. You wrote a post defending people's right to wear swastikas in public. What did you think was going to happen?

 

[AlexisInfectious®]

Er, right, let's forget the fact that helping the Nazis caused them to loose over 200,000 people to nuclear bombs? I'd say that's a good enough reason to kick up a fuss over the symbol, if there ever was one.



I thought there was a fair chance I might be set upon by a rabid do-gooder who would twist my words to ridiculous, self-serving proportions in order to go on a moral tirade, and I was right. But what are you gonna do? I haven't done anything wrong, my original opinion was that people should be allowed to wear what they want, anything I said after that was merely in response to slip's barrage of abuse. Not a trace of racism, or nazi apologetics, or any crap like that, that was all in his head. I'm still waiting for someone to quote me where I was supposedly making out the Nazi's were 'not that bad', or let this rest. Let me spell this out for anyone concerned - after studying history for 7 years, I am not so naive as to believe that the sole policy of the Nazi party in the 30s was 'racial genocide'. Note for the stupid, this does not mean "I think they are a cool bunch of guys", does not mean "they weren't that bad after all" and does not reveal *anything* about my political or ideological beliefs! Are we done now?

People are so touchy it seems we can't even have a small segment of a rational, abuse-free discussion about the Nazis, maybe we should ban all reproductions of the swastika, until people stop acting so petty? Let's give it another 60 years, and see if we can handle a mature conversation then, when me and Slip are both OAPS? "LOL"

 

[moonpiglet]

Has Japan ever formally apologized for WWII? I didn't think they had.

Maybe the official line is that they still regard the Nazis as allies.

 

[crimmsonandclover]

I hate to say this but I am totally discussted that what started of as a fun thread has been turned into a battle ground. Why the mods have not taken steps to curb this thread deterioration I don't know. The thread is on oriental sybols We all apreciate the negative picture behind the swastica however all attempts to bring this thread back on track appear to have been rejected.

Now I respect everyones vies on this forum although I may not always agree with them. But lets hope we can get this thread back on track? If not I feel it is time the swastica threads and pictures are removed or the thread closed. We realy don't need this crap guys.

 

[LexiL]

I regret making my post already.

 

[ILUVSHOPPING]

Well I'll be happy to let it drop, it has gone way too far. Slip, you can have the last word if you want mate. You have your opinions, I have mine, we obviously disagree (lol). If you think I'm a Nazi apologetic, that's your opinion also.

 

[yeppidy]

Mav honey,
We can drop it...
I think true colors were shown enough.

I'm just happy mine didn't turn out to be a black swastika on a white circle on a red flag.

Buh-bye.

 

[justdani692001]

FWIW...

I have requested that the mod strip out the Nazi stuff since it got everything so sidetracked.

They can decide if they want to stick it in a seperate thread or just bin it.

So let's get on with the Chinese... Japanese tatoos.

Maverick your more than welcome to post anything relevant on that issue.

 

[matefate]

You've shown yourself to be a liar though.