I thought this was great
- Thread starter Emmahleeeeett
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Yeah maybe wait till theres two kids and all they do is squable and fight argue and fight and squable then tell me a smack in the ass isnt a learning experience.You gotta diferentiate between a light smack and beating the **** out of your kids there IS A DIFFERANCE
If that was addressed to me, then yes I know there is. I'm talking about any smacking at all. Beating the asterisks out of your kids isn't even under discussion.
I'm not trying to preach to anyone about this. I said from the off that it's a tough one. I said that we were smacked as kids and it did us no harm. Frankly, I think we should perhaps have been smacked more! But then you've got to wonder why it got to that point.
All I'm saying is that it is possible to bring a child up properly without smacking them. If you disagree then fine. I'm just talking from my own experience.
I'm not trying to preach to anyone about this. I said from the off that it's a tough one. I said that we were smacked as kids and it did us no harm. Frankly, I think we should perhaps have been smacked more! But then you've got to wonder why it got to that point.
All I'm saying is that it is possible to bring a child up properly without smacking them. If you disagree then fine. I'm just talking from my own experience.
That's because some of us agree with a lot of what he said:
He has a point! When Caucasians express pride in themselves and their culture, they're labeled "racists".
We do spend an awful lot of time in the states worrying about what people may do. Gun laws are not stopping illegal firearms from being used in the commission of crimes, and the people who really suffer from gun laws are the citizens who try to obtain them legally and have to jump through mounds of red tape!
This one is pretty self-explanatory. Although I don't agree with their stand on gay men or atheists, there is a girl scout program for young ladies. Why must they want to join the Boy Scouts?
Meh. I disagree that it's "just an opinion," see my other post in this thread. It's usually a fear or a fantasy.
He does have a point. We're supposed to love everyone why? I don't think anyone's rights should be trod upon, but we can't force people to love one another.
That kinda speaks for itself. In predominantly white communities, the white folks are the criminals...
Agreed. Especially if you've been living in America for 15 years. There is simply no excuse for you to have not picked up the language after years of being immersed in it. The same would apply to Americans who choose to travle abroad, learn the damn language!
Not sure how to repsond, this one isn't exactly concrete. But if you come here, work illegally, commit crimes, and generally become a drain on society, we do have the right to deport you.
This is a tad excessive, as I already noted earlier.
We really do need to hand out more small business start up loans all around. On the flip side, Americans need to stop thinking everything is beneath them.
Funny, but we do seem to do this ourselves with an alarming frequency. Again, flip side is: let us not forget that for the land ofthe free, we do seem to have a lot in common in terms of human rights as some of the ugliest countries in the world...
Agreed.
LOL. TV doesn't hurt kids, bad parenting does!
He's got a point. America is a capitalist country, not a sociaist state. If you don't like windows, buy a Mac or build your own. And you have just as much right to build a new system as he did.
w00t!!! Amen! If parents acted like parents instead of trying to be their kids' best friend, they might not be running around thinking they can do whatever they damn well please.
I have 14 tats. None of them show when I am at work. If you choose to stick a thousand holes in your head and ink on your face and neck, don't be surprised when you don't get that job you're looking for. Use some common sense.
Again, he does have a point. We do spend an inordinate amount of time in American culture trying to figure out what to call someone. It really is unnecessary.
He has a point! When Caucasians express pride in themselves and their culture, they're labeled "racists".
We do spend an awful lot of time in the states worrying about what people may do. Gun laws are not stopping illegal firearms from being used in the commission of crimes, and the people who really suffer from gun laws are the citizens who try to obtain them legally and have to jump through mounds of red tape!
This one is pretty self-explanatory. Although I don't agree with their stand on gay men or atheists, there is a girl scout program for young ladies. Why must they want to join the Boy Scouts?
Meh. I disagree that it's "just an opinion," see my other post in this thread. It's usually a fear or a fantasy.
He does have a point. We're supposed to love everyone why? I don't think anyone's rights should be trod upon, but we can't force people to love one another.
That kinda speaks for itself. In predominantly white communities, the white folks are the criminals...
Agreed. Especially if you've been living in America for 15 years. There is simply no excuse for you to have not picked up the language after years of being immersed in it. The same would apply to Americans who choose to travle abroad, learn the damn language!
Not sure how to repsond, this one isn't exactly concrete. But if you come here, work illegally, commit crimes, and generally become a drain on society, we do have the right to deport you.
This is a tad excessive, as I already noted earlier.
We really do need to hand out more small business start up loans all around. On the flip side, Americans need to stop thinking everything is beneath them.
Funny, but we do seem to do this ourselves with an alarming frequency. Again, flip side is: let us not forget that for the land ofthe free, we do seem to have a lot in common in terms of human rights as some of the ugliest countries in the world...
Agreed.
LOL. TV doesn't hurt kids, bad parenting does!
He's got a point. America is a capitalist country, not a sociaist state. If you don't like windows, buy a Mac or build your own. And you have just as much right to build a new system as he did.
w00t!!! Amen! If parents acted like parents instead of trying to be their kids' best friend, they might not be running around thinking they can do whatever they damn well please.
I have 14 tats. None of them show when I am at work. If you choose to stick a thousand holes in your head and ink on your face and neck, don't be surprised when you don't get that job you're looking for. Use some common sense.
Again, he does have a point. We do spend an inordinate amount of time in American culture trying to figure out what to call someone. It really is unnecessary.
eldritchmuse
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- Mar 16, 2008
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I'll just pick out a couple:
No one is proud of themselves for being a 'Causcasian'! There is no such thing as Caucasian culture. Caucasian is just a very broad racial grouping.
Right - and they're not stopping legal firearms from doing the same thing either.
I can believe that. So maybe if an African-American wants to be called an African-American then just call them that, rather than getting upset about it like the geezer who wrote the original article!
No one is proud of themselves for being a 'Causcasian'! There is no such thing as Caucasian culture. Caucasian is just a very broad racial grouping.
Right - and they're not stopping legal firearms from doing the same thing either.
I can believe that. So maybe if an African-American wants to be called an African-American then just call them that, rather than getting upset about it like the geezer who wrote the original article!
So is "African-American" and "Asian-American". Those are just as broad as "Caucasian". But to the more important issue:
The point which you seemed to have missed is that as white people living in the US, we're not allowed to be proud of our heritage (hence my broad use of the word "Caucasian". I could list every nationality if you'd like, instead, but that would make for a very long post).
A ha, but many of the guns used in the commission of crimes in the states are in fact illegally obtained. They are stolen, bought off the black market, etc. Generally speaking, guys who want to rob a bank don't go to the local gun shop and obtain the weapon legally.
I'm not upset, I'm simply agreeing. We spend too much time hyphenating everything. And for what point? Do you guys in England call your black citizens African-English? Or your hispanics Latin Europeans? No, you're either "Eurpopean" or "British" or "English". You guys don't hyphenate everything, it's terribly frustrating.
The point which you seemed to have missed is that as white people living in the US, we're not allowed to be proud of our heritage (hence my broad use of the word "Caucasian". I could list every nationality if you'd like, instead, but that would make for a very long post).
A ha, but many of the guns used in the commission of crimes in the states are in fact illegally obtained. They are stolen, bought off the black market, etc. Generally speaking, guys who want to rob a bank don't go to the local gun shop and obtain the weapon legally.
I'm not upset, I'm simply agreeing. We spend too much time hyphenating everything. And for what point? Do you guys in England call your black citizens African-English? Or your hispanics Latin Europeans? No, you're either "Eurpopean" or "British" or "English". You guys don't hyphenate everything, it's terribly frustrating.
But 'caucasians' don't have a common heritage. Irish-Americans don't have the same heritage as Greek-Americans, for example. Don't all the different groups have equal pride in their heritage?
I accept that the majority of guns used in crimes are probably illegally obtained. I suppose the legal ones tend to be in the cases that make the headlines over here, like schoolkids running amok with their Dad's guns and stuff like that.
That's a very interesting point. In the USA everyone gets to be something-American, but over here you generally just have to be British. If you're black you can be Black British, which of course lumps together people of very different backgrounds. Ditto Asian British. But for most immigrant comunities you don't get nuffink. Call yourself Irish British and people will just think you're daft.
You Yanks should count yourselves lucky! You can stay in touch with your roots, and yet still be a patriotic American at the same time.
I accept that the majority of guns used in crimes are probably illegally obtained. I suppose the legal ones tend to be in the cases that make the headlines over here, like schoolkids running amok with their Dad's guns and stuff like that.
That's a very interesting point. In the USA everyone gets to be something-American, but over here you generally just have to be British. If you're black you can be Black British, which of course lumps together people of very different backgrounds. Ditto Asian British. But for most immigrant comunities you don't get nuffink. Call yourself Irish British and people will just think you're daft.
You Yanks should count yourselves lucky! You can stay in touch with your roots, and yet still be a patriotic American at the same time.
makinitwork
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I didn't mind much of what was said but the way he said it pissed me off. He seemsed to forget that these are only his opinions whoever the hell he is.
A few of them did piss me off though, the average black person is provably worse off than the averag white person and that's because of slavery. Another fact is that a disparportionate number of blacks are in jail, thats because of the fact they come from poorer backgrounds.
On the tolerant note it kinda depends how he defines tolerant doesn't it? If he means that he wants to hold a low opinion of them thats fine but if he means he isn't going to tolerate anyone different from him thats called "Ethnic cleansing".
On the language thing the stats suggest that 20% of Americans are fluent in Hispanic these days, should people refuse to alter their thinking for this? Well thats open to debat but I do think it's reasonable to demand that everyone speaks English in America.
The Bill Gates thing, well me personally I think that everyone has the right to be alive regardless of what nation you live in and seeing as lot's of people die because they dont have enough money you'll forgive me if the problem was solved at the cost of Bill Gates only geting paid half his salary. Boo hoo for him, looks like he cant afford.... no wait, he still can.
A few of them did piss me off though, the average black person is provably worse off than the averag white person and that's because of slavery. Another fact is that a disparportionate number of blacks are in jail, thats because of the fact they come from poorer backgrounds.
On the tolerant note it kinda depends how he defines tolerant doesn't it? If he means that he wants to hold a low opinion of them thats fine but if he means he isn't going to tolerate anyone different from him thats called "Ethnic cleansing".
On the language thing the stats suggest that 20% of Americans are fluent in Hispanic these days, should people refuse to alter their thinking for this? Well thats open to debat but I do think it's reasonable to demand that everyone speaks English in America.
The Bill Gates thing, well me personally I think that everyone has the right to be alive regardless of what nation you live in and seeing as lot's of people die because they dont have enough money you'll forgive me if the problem was solved at the cost of Bill Gates only geting paid half his salary. Boo hoo for him, looks like he cant afford.... no wait, he still can.
sarahlouholmes2000
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It's an opinion. It's hard to prejudice a homosexual. Think about prejudicing a person who's black. You might think he's a gangter, thug, or something. That's prejudice, he maybe black, but he might/might not be any of those otherthings. But what about thinking homosexuality are wrong? Well, that means that you think participating in gay sex is wrong. Hard to be prejudge someone for something they've already have done.
The "prejudice" word as well as the "homophobe" word have both been thrown like mud at people in a sort of strawman arguement way, becuase of the negaive connotaions of those words.
You are so absolutely right, I can't stand people who aren't tolerant. In fact, I'd even say I can't tolerate that. [/sarcasm]
If you are really interested in such things Shelby Steele (awesome name) wrote a very interesting (and controvercial) book on this subject The Content of Our Character: A New Vision of Race in America.
I think that's all I'll respond. Political debates are really tiring on the web.
The "prejudice" word as well as the "homophobe" word have both been thrown like mud at people in a sort of strawman arguement way, becuase of the negaive connotaions of those words.
You are so absolutely right, I can't stand people who aren't tolerant. In fact, I'd even say I can't tolerate that. [/sarcasm]
If you are really interested in such things Shelby Steele (awesome name) wrote a very interesting (and controvercial) book on this subject The Content of Our Character: A New Vision of Race in America.
I think that's all I'll respond. Political debates are really tiring on the web.
But neither do all of the "African Americans". Haiti, Africa, etc. And hell, Africa is a continent, not a country! There are hundreds of tribes in Africa, so I'd doubt that an Egyptian is going to agree that he has the same heritage as a South African, Nigerian, or Chad-ian (?).
agreed. but the laws are still kinda silly; if the criminal wants a gun, he'll get it.
And I sometimes have to wonder if it's worth it...
agreed. but the laws are still kinda silly; if the criminal wants a gun, he'll get it.
And I sometimes have to wonder if it's worth it...
I was waiting for that post. Johnno, you think all african americans have the same heritage. BaiKaiGuy just went with the Africa thing so Ill handle the Latin and Asian American. China and Japan dont have the same heritage and are both asian american and Mexico and Spain dont have the same heritage and are both Latin American. Kind of destroys you "common heritage" thing.
And about the child spanking thing. He said smack on the behind not beat sensless. I saw post talking about phsyically assaulting your child...talking about exaggerating his words.
I agree he may not have had a lot of finess with his words but the point is what he is saying is mainly accurate. Like the whole White Entertainment television thing. People would have a fit if that channel ever came out. And Affirmative Action thats about a load of racist crap too...but Im not going to get into that.
Anyway I think BaiKaiGuy and myself are on the same page on this one.
And about the child spanking thing. He said smack on the behind not beat sensless. I saw post talking about phsyically assaulting your child...talking about exaggerating his words.
I agree he may not have had a lot of finess with his words but the point is what he is saying is mainly accurate. Like the whole White Entertainment television thing. People would have a fit if that channel ever came out. And Affirmative Action thats about a load of racist crap too...but Im not going to get into that.
Anyway I think BaiKaiGuy and myself are on the same page on this one.
jackofalltrades
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Well actually most African slaves brought to the Americas came from a relatively small area of West Africa. But by the very nature of slavery, they were forcibly cut off from their heritage. People like Alex Haley who can trace their roots back to where their ancestors came from in Africa are very rare. So to equate African Americans with immigrant groups who went to America of their own free will is facile. Their is no comparison.
Bull.
Any person who leans towards the darker side of skin colour in America is referred to as "African American", and no one asks where they are from. If they speak Spanish, we call them "Latin American", and if the have almond-shaped eyes, we call them "Asian-American". No one asks, "hey what country are you from", we just lump 'em all together.
Slavery, no slavery, it's irrelevant.
EDIT:
OK, let me continue here:
If you're from Haiti, you're called "African American". If you're from Trinidad, you're African-American, if you're from Tobago, you're African-American. If you're from Egypt, you're African American. Hell, Americans are so dumb, if you're from Puerto Rico or Cuba and you have dark skin, you're called African American!
I don't think some of you realize how offensive it is to just make these blanket generalizations and use these blanket terms.
My high school was at least half hispanic and portuguese. We talked about this one day, but about the use of the terms "Latin American" and "Hispanic". The Spanish students, meaning those from Spain, hated both, as they felt those terms denoted "lower class" hispanics whose culture is drastically different in "Latin America" than Spain. The Latin Americans hated it because of the cultural diversity of Central and South America. These two areas of the world are populated by Europeans, Africans, Indians, etc. So to just lump them together was very offensive.
Same with the "African Americans". What does it mean? The tribes hate each other, the Europeans just dumped them all together based on their desires, not the tribal wishes, and now we have this conglomeration called "African American"? That's just plain ignorant lumping everyone together like that. Period.
I see what you're saying about the slavery, but what, pray tell, is so bad about just being "American"?!?
The use of the hyphen in discussing oneself is one of the absolute worst things to happen to American Popular culture.
Any person who leans towards the darker side of skin colour in America is referred to as "African American", and no one asks where they are from. If they speak Spanish, we call them "Latin American", and if the have almond-shaped eyes, we call them "Asian-American". No one asks, "hey what country are you from", we just lump 'em all together.
Slavery, no slavery, it's irrelevant.
EDIT:
OK, let me continue here:
If you're from Haiti, you're called "African American". If you're from Trinidad, you're African-American, if you're from Tobago, you're African-American. If you're from Egypt, you're African American. Hell, Americans are so dumb, if you're from Puerto Rico or Cuba and you have dark skin, you're called African American!
I don't think some of you realize how offensive it is to just make these blanket generalizations and use these blanket terms.
My high school was at least half hispanic and portuguese. We talked about this one day, but about the use of the terms "Latin American" and "Hispanic". The Spanish students, meaning those from Spain, hated both, as they felt those terms denoted "lower class" hispanics whose culture is drastically different in "Latin America" than Spain. The Latin Americans hated it because of the cultural diversity of Central and South America. These two areas of the world are populated by Europeans, Africans, Indians, etc. So to just lump them together was very offensive.
Same with the "African Americans". What does it mean? The tribes hate each other, the Europeans just dumped them all together based on their desires, not the tribal wishes, and now we have this conglomeration called "African American"? That's just plain ignorant lumping everyone together like that. Period.
I see what you're saying about the slavery, but what, pray tell, is so bad about just being "American"?!?
The use of the hyphen in discussing oneself is one of the absolute worst things to happen to American Popular culture.
Of course it isn't irrelevant. If millions of black people had emigrated to the USA in the same as Europeans did then they would form distinct groups like Nigerian-Americans, Ghanaian-Americans etc. But since they were brought in forcibly as slaves and all lumped together then inevitably the vast majority did not have option of keeping ties with their homeland in the same way that was possible for those who emigrated. Hence the collective term 'African-American'.
chris0072k
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If you're Black and from Trinidad and Tobago then your ancestors were originally from Africa anyway!
Who says this term is offensive by the way? If you're a Black American saying that you hate the term then that's one thing, but I'm under the impression that it's the term that most Black Americans use. If you're not a Black American then who are you to say it's offensive? Is any African-American telling you what to call yourself?
Who says this term is offensive by the way? If you're a Black American saying that you hate the term then that's one thing, but I'm under the impression that it's the term that most Black Americans use. If you're not a Black American then who are you to say it's offensive? Is any African-American telling you what to call yourself?
1. Africa is a continient, how many times must we say this. Hyphens are pointless, they're menaningless, they say nothing about the person except some made up heritage. And if you've been in America for 200 years, I think it's safe to say, "you're an American". Why is this so difficult? It's a mish-mash of ideas about African culture from people who's only contact with anything african is a history book.
2. I'm fairly certian there were people in trinidad, tobago, haiti, the dominican republic, etc, loooong before the slaves got dumped there. I'll double check, but I'm thinking the Carribean and Central and Southern America were in fact inhabited before the Europeans came along. I remember something about that in my archaeology class.
I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this one, because I don't see either of us changing our minds. You look at slavery, I look at the fact these were populated countries prior to the slave trade and the fact that if you've been in America for a couple of hundred years, you're an American, screw the hyphens.
2. I'm fairly certian there were people in trinidad, tobago, haiti, the dominican republic, etc, loooong before the slaves got dumped there. I'll double check, but I'm thinking the Carribean and Central and Southern America were in fact inhabited before the Europeans came along. I remember something about that in my archaeology class.
I think we'll need to agree to disagree on this one, because I don't see either of us changing our minds. You look at slavery, I look at the fact these were populated countries prior to the slave trade and the fact that if you've been in America for a couple of hundred years, you're an American, screw the hyphens.
oxestacyexo
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I suppose it works on two levels. Everyone is an American, but everyone has a different history. And as long as people tend to live in different areas and maintain to some degree the culture of their original homelands then you've got differences. Which isn't necessarilty a bad thing, although if it creates divisions in society then it can cause problems. Thing is, unless everyone says "forget the past, I'm just an American" then you've always got differences.
Is this relevant? The Carib Indians, for example, were wiped out after the arrival of Europeans.
I'm an outsider, I'm not an authority. But it seems to me that ethnic background defines American society. I'm happy to be corrected if that's a misconception, but that's how it appears to me.
Is this relevant? The Carib Indians, for example, were wiped out after the arrival of Europeans.
I'm an outsider, I'm not an authority. But it seems to me that ethnic background defines American society. I'm happy to be corrected if that's a misconception, but that's how it appears to me.
LifeSucksandSoDoYou
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Sorry, but I think this is a bunch of crap personally. There are people who came here from India or China in the last generation who had NOTHING. They weren't slaves, but they had no money, no education, and no opportunity and have gone on to make themselves wealthy and happy. Slavery is not a valid excuse for failure. I know plenty of black people who are wealthy, happy, and totally unaffected by slavery.
Pride in white cultures has become associated with racism. When your average person thinks of white pride or love of white cultures, they think of skinheads and nazi's. I am proud of my heritage. I have some english in me, and I'm aware of and proud of that. I have some german in me, and I'm aware and proud of that. I have some "native american" in me, and I'm proud of that.
The only one I like of the "X-American" is the native american one. Calling the cherokees "indians" is kind of insulting.
That's fine with me, as long as you don't hurt anyone. We don't have to like each other, we just have to live together.
Further more, I'm all about being politically incorrect. The PC brigade makes a good point every once in a while, but for the most part, they are a bunch of whiney babies.
Pride in white cultures has become associated with racism. When your average person thinks of white pride or love of white cultures, they think of skinheads and nazi's. I am proud of my heritage. I have some english in me, and I'm aware of and proud of that. I have some german in me, and I'm aware and proud of that. I have some "native american" in me, and I'm proud of that.
The only one I like of the "X-American" is the native american one. Calling the cherokees "indians" is kind of insulting.
That's fine with me, as long as you don't hurt anyone. We don't have to like each other, we just have to live together.
Further more, I'm all about being politically incorrect. The PC brigade makes a good point every once in a while, but for the most part, they are a bunch of whiney babies.
That's kind of ironic in the context of a country like the United States. I don't think there was a whole lot of "accepting Native American culture" going on when people settled here. The entire country, in fact, was terraformed to suit the settlers' beliefs.
I was watching a round table discussion of racism a while back. And one very angry black man made a really excellent point. He said that we won't have racial harmony until we (the majority) are prepared to be changed by the interaction. In other words, it's all well and good for the majority to say "we're all the same" as long as being the same means other cultures adapting to us and not vice versa. But the moment that we white, heterosexual males are called upon to adapt our way of thinking, we get uppity about it.
"Until you're willing to be changed by it"
I think that's a truly profound observation.
Stuart
I was watching a round table discussion of racism a while back. And one very angry black man made a really excellent point. He said that we won't have racial harmony until we (the majority) are prepared to be changed by the interaction. In other words, it's all well and good for the majority to say "we're all the same" as long as being the same means other cultures adapting to us and not vice versa. But the moment that we white, heterosexual males are called upon to adapt our way of thinking, we get uppity about it.
"Until you're willing to be changed by it"
I think that's a truly profound observation.
Stuart