Police Burtality or Preformance of Duty???

Spare me. We all know that presumption with my clients is a joke, why shouldn't it be for the police. How many stories do we have to hear of police brutality before we stop hiding our heads in the sand and just assume the cops are always in the right?



Uhm, he had a knee on his throat and was gagging and choking. What do you want, a plunger rammed up his arse? The justifications we may make as MAers doesn't take away form what was shown in that video, which was downright sickening.



In PA it's called "aggravated harassment by prisoner". Don't remember the statute # off the top of my head. Regardless, it does not justify a ground and pound. EVER.
 
The blue wall of silence isn't going to justify this one. I observed an assault, what more do I need to see?




I hope the family takes the Section 1983 lawsuit all the way. You're probably right about the lack of criminal charges, but hopefully they'll both be fired and find themselves on the receiving end of a large judgment. That GnP was inexcuseable.



I train with LEOs. I have no qualms about telling them I'll drag their asses into court if I ever find out they're using excessive force. And since I know what they're training, I've already warned them they'll be crucified if I have a client come in with something broken.



Read my posting history, that bravado doesn't impress me at all.
 
GC.. I am not assuming ...only asking quesions with a view to keeping an open mind..

If the apple is bad of course remove it from the barrel ...but dont paint every police officer with the same brush...

we are all products of our circumstances and lives...

My good friend was unfortunately shot dead whilst handcuffing a "perp" ...but he was a good man who followed the rules and in respect to him I do try to keep an open mind and remain fair..

Phill was a great martial artist and a good friend who played by the rules and was killed doing his best for society ...so all I ask is dont condemn without the full facts ...

your humble servant..Smurf
 
*sigh*



Reread my posts in this thread. I acknowledged that over 90% of the cops I deal with daily are good men and women. It's the ones like this I hate.



Well, the vid is pretty damning, and the "statements" given by the police were generic and self-serving. If someone can produce witnesses who saw the arrestee doing something which justified the beating he got, I'll shut up. Right now, I'm in a pretty judgmental mood because this stuff happens far too often.
 
I've had a few if you count staff at detention and shelter facilities. Other states have dellt more with this issue. Many claims of "brutality" are admittedly over-exaggerations on the part of most defendants. I'm not naive. But this... whoo-boy.

I can't name cases or situations because it's juvi court, but yeah, I know who's got stuff pending against whom, and thankfully it doesn't happen often... this has just been an off year it seems...
 
People who are not understanding with Juveniles such as you and I do not understand the half of it.....

Sometimes, juvenile cases are more in depth and more difficult than the adult system, I wouldn't want your job.

PS, just teasing about the avatar thing, who is the guy on the avatar?

Kew-Do
 
Gotta agree with Gangrel Childe here whats showin in the video is clearly going overboard. Did no-one bother watching the longer 43 second clip of repeated punching to the face on the CNN link? Sure there may be circumstances which explain why the situation was so highly strung but the police in that video are pinning a guy to the ground and repeatedly punching him in the face! So as for resisting what do you want him to do? Sit there and smile until he is unconcious? In the video his hands are clearly going nowhere near a gun, he is repeatedly complaining that he can't breathe and then repeatedly being smacked in the face- this really seems like a no brainer. As for not being able to speak if your breathing is being restricted... dear god, try this experiment get someone to kneel on your neck and then see if its 1. possible to speak and 2. easy to breathe. You may find some suprising results if you think being able to say a few words is a sign that your breathing is perfectly fine. And if it isnt restricitng his breathing what exactly do you think is happening? The officer is just holding his knee just above the guys throat and not putting any pressure on it?

The police aren't perfect they are people just like everyone else and though they have a tough job and deserve the benefit of the doubt until all the evidence has been heard personally I think the fact that a lot of people here are willing to pardon any action in the line of duty is a little disturbing.
 
We will agree to disagree.....Judgement on all the facts in a court of law ..I agree with ...

generic terms "this stuff happens far too often " ...I will disagree with.

We both know the system ..it will never be a perfect system with perfect people working in it ...because people screw it up....

Bad publicity sells newspapers ...so we see the bad police on the TV ....but where are the good news stories..?

Saddened Smurf
 
I don't know about the pardoning part, but to willingly condemn them/him too without the full facts is just as disturbing
 
Yeah your right when we see a video of a police officer repeatedly (for 43 seconds at least) punching a man in the face who is already pinned to the ground and is complaining of difficulty breathing due to the officers knee being on his throat we should just assume he deserved it. Police brutality should be the farthest thought from our minds..
 
It's not a longer video they looped the same segment twice. If you truly cannot breathe you also cannot speak. The fact he said he could not breathe proves he could breathe. The officers weren't sitting on top of him because he was cooperating. Look at the tension in his left arm at the beginning of the video, just because he wasn't making progress doesn't mean he wasn't resisting. That's the whole secret, comply with the instructions given, if there is excessive force used let the matter be settled in a courtroom, you will only hurt your case by resisting.
 
When we see a non-officer assaulting someone, no one on MAP thinks "oh, gee, the victim surely deserved to be punched in the head repeatedly!" We think, and understandably, "oh, the poor victim".

When we see an officer, you all think "gee, they have such a hard job, they must have had a really good reason for that". As CKava noted, it was 43 seconds of pummeling. No going for a gun, no real resisting, and being choked. But some of you would rather play semantics than acknowledge that this was uncalled for. See:



Semantics. I know when Sifu comes up to me in class and tries to choke me, I don't think "gee, I'm safe, I can breathe". I think to myself "****! This hurts and I need to get out of this choke hold". Knees in the throat HURT. The average person finds having their throat constricting quite disconcerting (to be diplomatic).

Enough with the semantics. He was being choked, plain and simple.




Gee, if I had an officer kneeling on my throat I wouldn't exactly be the model of compliance, either. No photo evidence he was going for a gun, no striking the officers, etc. Just the officers going overboard.
 
He was resisting, not successfully but he was resisting and it was not 43 seconds it was five punches total and they could have been delivered with more force. He hit him pretty solid but was not giving it all he could. The defendant would not have been conscious and fighting back if he had. All the defendant had to do was stop resisting, that's it.

You'd rather they take a chance and try to wrestle him face down and take the chance that he might get a hold of a weapon in the struggle?

That puts the officers and public at risk.
 
WELL what a surprise we have a polarised debate on MAP!!!

I wonder what way a Jury would look at this matter....?

who would the Jury consist of ?

Everyone will have a viewpoint and the strongest character on the Jury will probably prevail...

The laywers / solicitors and barristers will fill their coffers no matter what the outcome.. they will play out their little drama's in court not caring who's life they crush along the way...its just a job to them ...

Is it really about Police using excessive force ....?

and some parts of society being squeemish about it ...

or is it that society thinks its OK as long as we dont have to question what the police do to keep society in line...a video like this is disturbing ...

How many of society's good people feel the police should give a beating to the criminals ?...

Have some in society got too much empathy for the villains...

Have some got too much support for the police and heavy handed tactics and techniques...

All emotive questions ....these Police officers work in a world that is filled with CCTV, video camera's, mobile phone cams...and should be aware that most things they do will be recorded somewhere .....even in their own patrol cars!!! This is a very good way to keep the officers on the straight and narrow..

They are either very stupid in their actions or they were fully justified because there is no doubt the officer is punching the man in the face ...and they must be aware they could/are being recorded.
 
Very good post alansmurf! and bcullen you are right about it being a looped, didn't notice that myself makes it a shorter unreasonable act.

Also bcullen I dunno about in the states but smacking a guy in the face is, as far as Im aware, not advocated as an appropriate means in the UK for subduing a guy you already have pinned to the ground by two officers- especially when one is already resting his knee on the guys neck! If you felt you were being ghoked by the police would you struggle and then stop struggling when they punched you in the face?
 
Very good post alansmurf! and bcullen you are right about it being a looped, didn't notice that myself makes it a shorter unreasonable act.

Also bcullen I dunno about in the states but smacking a guy in the face is, as far as Im aware, not advocated as an appropriate means in the UK for subduing a guy you already have pinned to the ground by two officers- especially when one is already resting his knee on the guys neck! If you felt you were being choked by the police would you struggle and then stop struggling when they punched you in the face?
 
Oh, so we take away the rights of one person at a time to avoid "putting the public at risk". Every little liberty we give up eventually adds up to one major liberty being taken away form all of us, and I ain't supporting that.

Last time I checked, officers didn't have the authority to punch someone multiple times in the head because they didn't want to be cuffed. I don't accept that line of thought at all. He wasn't going for their weapons, there were two of them and one of him, he was in no position to reach for a weapon of his own (which I doubt he had... we all know the officers would have made a huge issue were he armed), he was laying there with a knee in his throat. Roll his ass over. It's an arrest not a PRIDE or UFC championship fight.

You make it sound so simple to just "stop resisiting". You're a trained martial artist who rolls around on the floor getting choked for fun. To an average person, being choked sucks. It hurts, it's scary as hell, and when you throw a ground and pound session on top of being choked, you tend to struggle. Welcome to basic psych 101. It's called "flight or fight". He couldn't escape, so the self-preservation kicked in... which, for the record, it wouldn't have if that officer weren't kneeing him in the throat!
 
Quote from Gangrelchilde....

"When we see a non-officer assaulting someone, no one on MAP thinks "oh, gee, the victim surely deserved to be punched in the head repeatedly!" We think, and understandably, "oh, the poor victim".

"When we see an officer, you all think "gee, they have such a hard job, they must have had a really good reason for that". As CKava noted, it was 43 seconds of pummeling. No going for a gun, no real resisting, and being choked. But some of you would rather play semantics than acknowledge that this was uncalled for. "


Apples and Oranges....Officer / Non-Officer (civilian).
I really would like to see the whole video from beginning to end...Can anyone direct me via link on this forum to see more of the video, I've only viewed what was on this post.

Thank you in advance,

Kew-Do
 
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