Margaret Thatcher has died
- Thread starter SoggySoape
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TheFritoBandito
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- Apr 13, 2008
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I despise Cameron, but not on the same level as Thatcher. Not even close. She was a special case. I wouldn't compare her to Hitler or Stalin in terms of evilness, that would be silly. But in terms of being glad that an evil person who I detest is no longer with us, then sure, why not.
She may have been out of office, but the legacy of her misrule is still with us. You can't just sweep it under the carpet and say forgive and forget.
Well no one did more to pursue class politics in this country than Thatcher. She wasn't interested in 'one nation' conservatism. Just government by the rich, for the rich.
I haven't seen anyone say that they'd have liked to kill her. personally i think I could have done it without hesitation or remorse, but you can't say that for certain until you are in that situation. It's completely hypothetical.
I'd be cheering a lot louder if she'd been hanged, believe me.
She may have been out of office, but the legacy of her misrule is still with us. You can't just sweep it under the carpet and say forgive and forget.
Well no one did more to pursue class politics in this country than Thatcher. She wasn't interested in 'one nation' conservatism. Just government by the rich, for the rich.
I haven't seen anyone say that they'd have liked to kill her. personally i think I could have done it without hesitation or remorse, but you can't say that for certain until you are in that situation. It's completely hypothetical.
I'd be cheering a lot louder if she'd been hanged, believe me.
chrissie_bautista
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- Apr 5, 2008
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I wonder how she'll look in history? I suppose it depends on who writes it
That's why you sometimes have to speak ill of the dead
That's why you sometimes have to speak ill of the dead
noirnoticvibe
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- Apr 6, 2008
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Yes, there is a difference between feeling glad and acting out the way some people do.
You can't control what you feel, but you can control how you express it.
One way is civilized, IMO the other isn't.
You can't control what you feel, but you can control how you express it.
One way is civilized, IMO the other isn't.
eddieedwards
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- Apr 3, 2008
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I have no doubt at all that she will continue to be as divisive in death as she was in life. Not that she would care, as she always seemed to enjoy causing discord.
Wakeallthechildren
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- Apr 6, 2008
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The fact they exist doesn't mean I can't complain about them and try to get people away from them. Categorizing people based on how much money they have is something I disagree with.
What does it matter where she died? Are all her ills forgiven if she died in a council funded care home? The woman was an elected politician who carried out her mandate based on her political ideals. Hell she was elected three times. You hated her politics. Once she was unelected she no longer had an effect on politics. Her policies carried on having an effect yes, but her dying didn't stop them. The actual action of her death, which is what's being celebrated, has changed nothing in your life. If she died whilst in power or while there was a risk of her being reelected then I'd get it a lot more.
Then fine. You being happy she's dead I can put up with more.
Maybe because I'm tired but this bit didn't make sense to me. Could you put it in a more stupid way for me please?
What does it matter where she died? Are all her ills forgiven if she died in a council funded care home? The woman was an elected politician who carried out her mandate based on her political ideals. Hell she was elected three times. You hated her politics. Once she was unelected she no longer had an effect on politics. Her policies carried on having an effect yes, but her dying didn't stop them. The actual action of her death, which is what's being celebrated, has changed nothing in your life. If she died whilst in power or while there was a risk of her being reelected then I'd get it a lot more.
on your other points Id happily have put a bullet in her head at the hight of her power
Maybe because I'm tired but this bit didn't make sense to me. Could you put it in a more stupid way for me please?
BasketballFan88
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- Apr 13, 2008
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I'm sure you've had your entire livelihood of your family and future children stripped out from underneath you at the ripe old age of 20.
In all fairness I would probably share your opinion if I hadn't taken a nice little chunk of life detour in the military where I got exposed to how severely leadership can screw people's lives up or end it entirely. I find there to be a lack of excuse for people in leadership positions, especially when it comes to the amount of hate people have for them. Making a judgment on whether or not that person was truly evil or not vs. what the popular opinion and the general amount of ignorance it contains, that's the tricky part. Doesn't seem to me that Thatcher had good intentions for the majority or individual (unless you fit a certain description) to me by what I've read on MAP or researched. Sounds like a person very much deserving being spat upon.
If you understood the level of hate people are capable of and have for her, (perfectly reasonable people too, look at who is posting in this thread) you wouldn't be going the soap box route. Hate isn't a "grrr this person ticks me off so much I could punch them!" I could describe what the feeling is like, but I would have to PM you : P.
In all fairness I would probably share your opinion if I hadn't taken a nice little chunk of life detour in the military where I got exposed to how severely leadership can screw people's lives up or end it entirely. I find there to be a lack of excuse for people in leadership positions, especially when it comes to the amount of hate people have for them. Making a judgment on whether or not that person was truly evil or not vs. what the popular opinion and the general amount of ignorance it contains, that's the tricky part. Doesn't seem to me that Thatcher had good intentions for the majority or individual (unless you fit a certain description) to me by what I've read on MAP or researched. Sounds like a person very much deserving being spat upon.
If you understood the level of hate people are capable of and have for her, (perfectly reasonable people too, look at who is posting in this thread) you wouldn't be going the soap box route. Hate isn't a "grrr this person ticks me off so much I could punch them!" I could describe what the feeling is like, but I would have to PM you : P.
ihartstewiet
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- Apr 6, 2008
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No but I'm pretty sure someone on here has already made that comparison. I was trying to make a point about this celebrating attitude generally and also hoping to give some explanation as to why I'm in a pissy mood about it all by this point.
No you can't but as I said to Tout what has her death done to change it? It hasn't undone her policies and I don't beleive its caused some karmic shift that has brought balance to the country either. Detesting her as a politican and celebrating her death as a person are different to me.
Would it be cool then if someone from a working class background became PM and then screwed over the middle and upper classes? And would it then be fine if when said person died the middle classes were all over the internet saying it was a great day?
I made the point really poorly and its one of the things I've struggled to put into words before. But if its a good thing she's dead shouldn't you have killed her so this good thing happened sooner?
No you can't but as I said to Tout what has her death done to change it? It hasn't undone her policies and I don't beleive its caused some karmic shift that has brought balance to the country either. Detesting her as a politican and celebrating her death as a person are different to me.
Would it be cool then if someone from a working class background became PM and then screwed over the middle and upper classes? And would it then be fine if when said person died the middle classes were all over the internet saying it was a great day?
I made the point really poorly and its one of the things I've struggled to put into words before. But if its a good thing she's dead shouldn't you have killed her so this good thing happened sooner?
GenesisFan
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- Apr 20, 2008
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we'll there is the point that she never held an elected mandate in my country but that leads to another issue.
This is the simple bit really, the current tory government is a direct linage of the Thatcherite administration same principal's and increasingly similar policy's. These principals are in direct conflict with many peoples values hence the hatred. This is the ultimate point really people aren't celebrating the woman's death with a new found hatred, her death has brought hatred and anger towards these kinds of politics that have always been there back to the surface.
This is the simple bit really, the current tory government is a direct linage of the Thatcherite administration same principal's and increasingly similar policy's. These principals are in direct conflict with many peoples values hence the hatred. This is the ultimate point really people aren't celebrating the woman's death with a new found hatred, her death has brought hatred and anger towards these kinds of politics that have always been there back to the surface.
thatonekid
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- Mar 25, 2008
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I wrote that so you'd understand that I do get the feeling. Could you do me a courtesy and not assume you have any idea what exactly they did for me to feel that way? I'm fully aware of the difference between this andhow I feel about someone I wouldn't mind punching.
Unless you wanted to completely throw your life out the window and strap a suicide vest on (which will probably fail), what exactly do you think goes into killing off a single person in political power? Nations with nearly unlimited resources have problems doing this, and full fledged wars have happened to do it. How do you see what you said as justifying a reason to not hate somebody?
wazuupster
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- May 12, 2008
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If you find the celebratory mood distasteful then I can understand that. I accept that it must be hard for someone who didn't live through those years to really understand how us older folk feel, and it isn't easy to explain it. It's more of an emotional thing than a logical one.
True, it's changed nothing. It's just a chance to come out and say just what we think of her. There won't be another occasion like it. We won't be having threads about her on each anniversary of her death, I don't suppose.
For me it wouldn't be 'cool'. I'd rather see class distinctions done away with, as I hate the class system and al the nonsense that goes with it. If I had to choose one class to screw over the others then I'd rather it was the workers, but I'd rather have no-one screwed over at all. But as long as the current system exists, we'll continue to see the majority of the population ripped off by the privilaged few.
Sorry mate. I kept meaning to do it, but I just spent too much time farting around on MAP and never got round to it.
True, it's changed nothing. It's just a chance to come out and say just what we think of her. There won't be another occasion like it. We won't be having threads about her on each anniversary of her death, I don't suppose.
For me it wouldn't be 'cool'. I'd rather see class distinctions done away with, as I hate the class system and al the nonsense that goes with it. If I had to choose one class to screw over the others then I'd rather it was the workers, but I'd rather have no-one screwed over at all. But as long as the current system exists, we'll continue to see the majority of the population ripped off by the privilaged few.
Sorry mate. I kept meaning to do it, but I just spent too much time farting around on MAP and never got round to it.
And I shared part of my life in respect for what you wrote because saying "I don't believe you" without providing some form of example from myself wouldn't validate myself. "Aware" and "knowing" aren't the same as "understanding" and I think that's what your lacking in your reasoning.
I'm not trying to be offensive, but I do know challenging one's character and opinion in the way I'm doing it can be seen that way. The risks one takes when assuming the moral high ground.
I'm not trying to be offensive, but I do know challenging one's character and opinion in the way I'm doing it can be seen that way. The risks one takes when assuming the moral high ground.
Yes, speak your mind. But I think one can wait a few days, like until after a funeral.
Or you can speak ill without partying or celebrating publicly.
I am not a fan of the Catholic Church. I find a lot of what they do damaging in my personal life. But I don't get on the Internet and cheer the death of a Pope. I may not have any sympathy when he dies. But I understand it is painful to other people.
One can have sympathy for opponents while disagreeing vehemently.
Or you can speak ill without partying or celebrating publicly.
I am not a fan of the Catholic Church. I find a lot of what they do damaging in my personal life. But I don't get on the Internet and cheer the death of a Pope. I may not have any sympathy when he dies. But I understand it is painful to other people.
One can have sympathy for opponents while disagreeing vehemently.
imgangzter4life
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- Mar 9, 2008
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I've already said it was badly made point, and it was a hypothetical not a literal thing. I appreciate actually killing Thatcher while she was PM would of been hard. What I meant was that if you think its a good thing someone is dead then, hypothetically, if put in a situation where you could do it and get away with it you wouldn't hesitate.
By all means hate the person. I didn't like Thatcher and all I did was read about her. I'm taking issue with the public literal celebration of her death. As in this thread isn't a discussion or anything. Its literally just a place for people to publically say " yay the bitch is gone" and slap each other on the back. I personally find that distasteful coming from a group of people whom I have such a level of respect for and expressed that.
Although the post you quoted had nothing to do with that point at all and was a seperate reply to your condescending post that because I'm 20 and haven't faced as severe economic hardship as some did under Thatcher that I must have no idea what hate is and be completely incapable of it. Unless I misinterpreted it in which case you have my apologies.
By all means hate the person. I didn't like Thatcher and all I did was read about her. I'm taking issue with the public literal celebration of her death. As in this thread isn't a discussion or anything. Its literally just a place for people to publically say " yay the bitch is gone" and slap each other on the back. I personally find that distasteful coming from a group of people whom I have such a level of respect for and expressed that.
Although the post you quoted had nothing to do with that point at all and was a seperate reply to your condescending post that because I'm 20 and haven't faced as severe economic hardship as some did under Thatcher that I must have no idea what hate is and be completely incapable of it. Unless I misinterpreted it in which case you have my apologies.
horsesinwyo
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- Apr 14, 2008
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Southpaw 535 wrote
I am afraid its just human nature.We are not as far removed from those Iraqis as we would like to think.
I am afraid its just human nature.We are not as far removed from those Iraqis as we would like to think.
NIKNAKMASTER1
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- Mar 1, 2008
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So having your life negatvely effected in a big way by a politician is the only way one can truly hate someone is what you're saying?