"American Militia"

[mexican_missez]

"American Militia"

Always turns to personal attacks lol. Well I wouldn't call that Obama's personal army, as it has been around for a while that is prob why it never made it to headlines. I'm pretty sure the president making his own little army would make news. Regarding the student loan part of that has been common knowledge though it was never publicly announced as it is just a rider.

 

[karyz]

"American Militia"

And they are..? Look I don;t need a "Scholar" to read a piece of paper for me & last time I checked the RAW (Rules As Written) of the Constitution said;
As under section 1 of the USCON it states that a preseident shall;


& under section two;


It requires 2/3 of the senate to appoint new new officers and the President shall only power over the Army (Airforce counts as it was essentually a department of the Army), Navy which likewise includes the Marine Corps as a department of the Navy. No establishing a Readt Reserve Corps of any noone military branch without 2/3 of senate approval which said health barely passed with 51%. Now I didn't check the link so under what section are you siting..?




Insurance was never really regulated and thats the problem? Think about this before the 1930s when "drugs" became illegal & before the beginning of the "drug war" started in the 1980s there wasn't a health care issue. Then healthcare insurance and prescription drugs became a focus of modern society. Now none of this happened all at once and Obama isn't the start of the these problems, but he is just another politican offering a solution to fix a system thats broke form the beginning. If ain't broke don't fix it and it you build it broke just start over; of course perscription drugs are a billion dollar industry (thus the need for the regulation of, war against unregulated and insurance for the drug industry).

I was in Mexico years back and I could buy prescription drugs for a huge fraction of the price $1 compared to $40+ a bill for the same drugs here in the US. Now why is that..? Don't say its monitary value because US/Mexico exchange rate is 8 to 1 and they are all manufactured by a US industry in Mexico. Its because Mexico doesn;t have a required health insurance industry lobbying their Congress for kick backs...

 

[nean]

"American Militia"

Well unfortunately the Media in the US is limitted by the political goals of their owners and investers. So when you get a liberal politican in the office everyone who hates him is a racist and when you have a conservative in office everyone who hates him is a commie. Only 50% of what the media tells you at any given time is legitimate news and the other stuff id opinion and thats on a good day...

 

[craigj]

"American Militia"

The RRC is a reserve component of an existing commissioned corps (the USPHSCC).

The RRC isn't even seen as challengable by the people who insist the bill is unconstitutional (few of whom are constitutional scholars or even lawyers for that matter).

As for you not needing a scholar to interpret the constitution for you...ignorance is bliss.

 

[nothingnew]

"American Militia"

Thats because when you have a liberal President, the liberal media doesn't bring this up. Its also a very small part of a larger issue, there is alot of things in that bill which are unconstitutional. Also I don't need a scholar to interpet the USCON because its written in pretty plain english. Especially the Bill of Rights, which creates limitations on the federal governments power & establishs the federal government has to respect my rights. If you read the Preamble to the Bill of Rights its explains the intention of the 2nd Amendment & that explaination is why the scholars are quick to ignore it outright.

Of course the US has been sliding down hill since before the Civil War. Of which I'm sure you are aware that the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in the south; not the slaves in the north, the issues which came up before that document was created the southern states were shipping raw materials from France & England & buying finished goods from them which caused a arguing and additional taxes. It was about money and power and not anything to do with slavery. After for a man to oppose slavery and still own slaves...

 

[kaylaaa]

"American Militia"

So you are saying that you have a better understanding of the US Constitution than those who have spent their careers studying it? Arrogant as well as ignorant, you really are the full package.

 

[sauceatffa]

"American Militia"

Ok listen to former judge:
YouTube- Obama's Private Army

At either point, how is it arrogant to accept a law in a RAW (Rules As Written) state? If the law says "thou shall not murder" then it means "thou shall not murder" if the Preamble outlines the reasons and use of said laws or restrictions upon the enforcement of the law, it doesn't require a college degree to take said laws at face value. As a rule lawyers do not spend anytime finding ways to enforce the law they find justifications and ways to twist, bend and break it. My mom was paralegal I been around lawyers and I know how that all works.

 

[Mileyfan06]

"American Militia"

It is arrogant to think you know more than an expert, irrespective of how simple you believe the issue to be. Plus, if it were as simple as you claim, why would scholars of the US Constitution even exist? Indeed, there seems to be various schools of though on constitution interpretation.


Rather ironically for you, the exact meaning of this coofftopicndment has been debated for eons.

Just because something appears simple to understand doesn't mean it is, especially if it concerns historical documents, where interpretation is virtually always required since you have to attempt to understand both the period and context within which it was written, what they intended to say, and how differences in language and meaning since then can effects the reading of the text. The constitution is no different. In fact, given it's importance to, and influence of, US politics it's paramount to ensure that a thorough examination of the range of interpretations are done, than simply relying on the rather rash and naive analysis that you've done.

Incidentally, it seems to be that those who are currently arguing for a 'face value' reading are quick to comb the constitution with a fine toothpick whenever there is something they don't agree with, in an attempt to read between the lines, such as with the separation between church and state.


I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Cite a scholar of the US Constitution that agrees your 'analysis'.


Did your mum tell you this?


My mum was an astronaut. Guess I know what space flight is like!

 

[CallmeWaLLlE]

"American Militia"

Well Tropher when lawyers tell you their job is to find ways around the law, I tend to believe them. As for the Constitutional discussion look here is the thing, everything is open to be interpeted especially if someone has an agenda. Every poltician has some agenda to push and therefore tries to interpet the Constitution or any law to mean different things.

I can say "do not commit murder" & you can sit down with strawman arguements and hypothetical questions all with the agenda of legally allowing you to commit murder. Thats the legal process in a nut shell, unless you want to tell me the lawyers and the one judge I'm kin to and have been raised around were lying to me...

Ah, right the agenda thing. Your agenda is what; simply supporting your belief that the law is some complicated mess and requires a college degree to understand...?

The fact is here in the US all laws are maintained (up to date) in the public liberary and are very specific & in plain English (though the worlds are sometimes uncommon but have a simple and clear meaning); such is done because the Courts in the US do not accept "ignorance of the law" as an excuse for breaking the law & so all laws have specific statement od what that law is. More so, the need for college and the Bar exams isn't about any conplicated nature in dealing with the law but in the fact all lawyers are "officers of the courts" and while "civilians" are entrusted with protecting and adhering to the Constitution of the United States & their behavior may reflect upon the Courts themselves and by extension the government as well. But, what do I know...

 

[NolanS]

"American Militia"

Draven Azropht

Which of your argument have I made a straw man of?

As for the complexity of the law. If it were as simple as you think it is then trials would be as simple as a mathematical equation. In reality the law is conditional, based on demonstrating intent.

The purpose of defence lawyers is to defend their client if they are innocent, or if there is reasonable doubt, and in all cases, to ensure they are getting a fair trial. The prosecution has to demonstrate what the person did, and that that act does indeed contravene a law.

You give murder as an example of how lawyers can allow someone to get away with murder. What lawyers would actually do is try to establish whether the act someone is being charged with (assuming it's been demonstrated that they did it) constitutes murder, and if so, to what degree. If not, what was it, e.g. manslaughter, diminished responsibility, etc. This isn't allowing people to get away with murder, it's acknowledging the complexity and range of human behaviour and intent.

Even if there laws themselves were in such plain English that it was impossible to misconstrue them, there is still the matter of establishing whether the person did what they are being charged with, beyond reasonable doubt.

You say the reason for their being multiple interpretations of the Constitution is due to personal agendas of politicians. I'm not talking about politicians, who may or may not be bias, rather I am talking about scholars and academics who tend to be far more objective, lest they lose any respectability from their field.

I'll ask again whether you can cite a scholar of the US Constitution that agrees your analysis.

 

[theone_theonly]

"American Militia"

Look I didn't read the entire thread b/c I'm on the run. But I just gotta post my 2 cents.

I'm a bluecollar dude and work with a lot of painters and general contractors. Many of whom are sympathetic to Militia movements or their ideals. And honestly they disgust me.

These guys are completely paranoid. They often believe in contradictory ideals. That's why there's such a diverse number of Militia groups because basically these ppl don't know what to believe in. All they know is that they fear ppl who are not like them. Things they perceive as "the establishment " whether its liberals, the government, minorities, the middle class, or whatever scare them. What that is exactly is a little bit different to each of those guys and usually some sort of mixture of the before-mentioned, it seems what they fear is tailored to their own personal paranoia. Perhaps they feel alienated because they got the short end of the stick. Life doesn't work out how we want all the time but I don't go out of my way to blame others for that. Sh-- Happens.

These people also never bother to fact check things. They hear something they want to believe in and because it is what they want to hear they think its a credible source. They never bother to research whether it true or not. Some painter came in telling me how the school system is righting anti-American crap in the history books. Where? Bring one in show it to me.

Another guy started ranting and raving how minorities are trying to push the white race out. What the hell makes him think I want to hear that? (I'm Asian)

Another dude is stockpiling guns and food for some inevitable apocalypse scenario.

I don't care what the militia claim they believe in. Until they start fact checking their own statements and stop blaming other people for their bad luck I'm not giving them an inch of sympathy.

 

[DreBe]

"American Militia"

I have no problem with individuals compiling guns and ammunition. But the idea that all militias practice martial arts? The ones I've been exposed to seem to be more interested in practicing their drinking, seeing who can tell the most racist jokes, and brag about who has the nicest mobile home.....