Alcohol and Drugs are destoying our society.
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tinkywinky1
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Combogalis
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Are you kidding?
Drugs are part and parcel of and often central to MANY indigenous societies. They function OK.
Alcohol has been a part of European society for centuries. Brewing beer is how we were able to drink liquid without succumbing to all sorts of water born diseases for a long time IIRC.
I'm not saying we don't have problems with drink and drugs just that we always have and always will. Didn't stop us going to the moon, discovering evolution, working out the germ theory of disease or building the LHC.
Arguably the problem with drugs is not the drugs themselves but the criminality that arises whenever you ban something people want.
Drugs are part and parcel of and often central to MANY indigenous societies. They function OK.
Alcohol has been a part of European society for centuries. Brewing beer is how we were able to drink liquid without succumbing to all sorts of water born diseases for a long time IIRC.
I'm not saying we don't have problems with drink and drugs just that we always have and always will. Didn't stop us going to the moon, discovering evolution, working out the germ theory of disease or building the LHC.
Arguably the problem with drugs is not the drugs themselves but the criminality that arises whenever you ban something people want.
Dhalsim-on posted
And of course the alternative is taking alcohol off the streets which is of course what happened in the 1920s in America where we had prohibition and gangsters and smuggling.
Dont worry Dhalsim-On i'm not disagreeing with you, I think a few of us are aware of the opiums of the masses. Sport, Alcohol, Soaps on TV amongst only a few.
Garth
And of course the alternative is taking alcohol off the streets which is of course what happened in the 1920s in America where we had prohibition and gangsters and smuggling.
Dont worry Dhalsim-On i'm not disagreeing with you, I think a few of us are aware of the opiums of the masses. Sport, Alcohol, Soaps on TV amongst only a few.
Garth
down_with_forever
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- Mar 14, 2008
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PA smith posted
Correct, In fact it was breweries that led to the growth of towns because until very recently the water was undrinkable. Before the towns we have today where most of the popultaion lived on, or worked on farms each farm distilled its own beer.
Personally when it comes to drugs I think we should legalise them.
Yes all of them
Garth
Correct, In fact it was breweries that led to the growth of towns because until very recently the water was undrinkable. Before the towns we have today where most of the popultaion lived on, or worked on farms each farm distilled its own beer.
Personally when it comes to drugs I think we should legalise them.
Yes all of them
Garth
The thing is with rohypnol it is at present only a class 3 drug (The same class as cannabis) and already Rohypnol being sold takes on a blue or cloudy effect when added to drinks to tip the owner of the drink that it has been spiked.
However you need to think who is supplying Rohypnol.
Garth
However you need to think who is supplying Rohypnol.
Garth
heartandmachine
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- Apr 7, 2008
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God, I couldn't agree with this more. The moment the government makes something illegal they're essentially shirking responsibility for dealing with it. They're not idiots, they know that it will only drive it underground. They also know that it's barely going to reduce the demand for these things, especially the ones that are addictive. They also know that it increases crime and puts money into the hands of drug-dealers. But hey, making them legal and putting decent controls on them would mean that they would lose the substantial knee-jerk voter demographic.
The problem isn't alcohol and other drugs.
I've used marijuana pretty frequently and I have only very positive experiences from it. It doesn't cause you to be lazy. Quite the contrary. It enhances creativity and according to Eddie Bravo it can even improve your martial arts abilities. He discovered all those moves (which I use in the gym every day) while high. And he instructs high, and he spars and competes high.
Alcohol is a lot stronger and a thousand times more dangerous than marijuana, and you lose your restraints quite a bit, but that should be no excuse for violence.
I've known people who have used amphetamine to the extent that their body showed withdrawal symptoms. My girl friend was just tired that day and felt depressed, but that was about it.
People who lose their control on substances can lose their control on many things. They might lose their control when it comes to sugar or fat intake, they might lose their control while sober, or when they go about their business.
Drugs can be wonderful and absolutely fantastic if used right and in the right amount, and with respect and knowledge.
It's not a drug issue, it's a people's issue. Something is wrong with a lot of people. Don't ask me why there are so many maniacs in this world. But one thing is certain, it's not because of drugs. I actually think there would be less violence in the world if everyone would just relax and take a joint.
I've used marijuana pretty frequently and I have only very positive experiences from it. It doesn't cause you to be lazy. Quite the contrary. It enhances creativity and according to Eddie Bravo it can even improve your martial arts abilities. He discovered all those moves (which I use in the gym every day) while high. And he instructs high, and he spars and competes high.
Alcohol is a lot stronger and a thousand times more dangerous than marijuana, and you lose your restraints quite a bit, but that should be no excuse for violence.
I've known people who have used amphetamine to the extent that their body showed withdrawal symptoms. My girl friend was just tired that day and felt depressed, but that was about it.
People who lose their control on substances can lose their control on many things. They might lose their control when it comes to sugar or fat intake, they might lose their control while sober, or when they go about their business.
Drugs can be wonderful and absolutely fantastic if used right and in the right amount, and with respect and knowledge.
It's not a drug issue, it's a people's issue. Something is wrong with a lot of people. Don't ask me why there are so many maniacs in this world. But one thing is certain, it's not because of drugs. I actually think there would be less violence in the world if everyone would just relax and take a joint.
The problem with drugs (excluding alcohol) being illegal is that it empowers the criminals, it in many cases weakens the functionality of the state, it weakens the people, and it weakens the economy.
It empower criminals because they can sell drugs on the black market.
It weakens the police because they have to use money to combat something that doesn't need to be combated.
It weakens the citizens because they are prosecuted, harassed. And today there are no age limits on drugs (except alcohol). With legalization we would have age limits.
It weakens the economy because those drugs could have been sold for a profit by the state, in which the proceeds could be used for many good causes.
It empower criminals because they can sell drugs on the black market.
It weakens the police because they have to use money to combat something that doesn't need to be combated.
It weakens the citizens because they are prosecuted, harassed. And today there are no age limits on drugs (except alcohol). With legalization we would have age limits.
It weakens the economy because those drugs could have been sold for a profit by the state, in which the proceeds could be used for many good causes.
AlexisInfectious®
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- Apr 17, 2009
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Only the Roche branded form of Flunitrazepam has the blue dye added, the other generic forms, (such as those available over the net) do not, if used on yourself I have no problems with personal use. However those caught dealing it should be prosecuted as they enable date rapists.
Thats the problem, the world is full of idiots and bad people.
Thats the problem, the world is full of idiots and bad people.
dancqeen95
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- Apr 6, 2008
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Kusa posted
I agree.
My point is that at present whilst some drugs (class A,B,and C) are illegal they are still sought after and are a menace to our society. The illegality of the drugs has not stopped drugs being imported into our countries or it being sold on the streets to anyone who wants them. Including school children.
And people are quite willing to risk prison sentences and in some cases (Thailland) death sentences to deal or import drugs.
Why is this?
Well because once you make something illegal the price goes through the roof for that product, and it makes it worth the risk to do such illegal activities for a quick return.
To use an analogy if we turn to ivory. Prior to the ban on ivory in Africa elephents were being hunted but they were not becoming an endangered species. Once the ban on ivory happened the price of ivory went up and it made it worth while to hunt elephents. In fact the number of poachers increased, and the elephents died to the point where they became an endangered species. And even harsh prison sentences did not deter the poachers.
The same is true with drugs, guns, alcohol. Anything you ban will gain a high price and people will risk their freedom and in some cases lives to furnish those items to a paying public. Look what happened in 1920s prohibition. Alcohol was banned, the price went through the roof which led to smuggling and gang land killings.
If however you lift the ban on drugs the actual price of the item drops. You move the illegality and the ones that have problems with drugs (The users) instead of hiding their illegal activities can openly seek help for their proble. Also as the price of the drugs has now dropped they re not having to commit crime (i.e. Burglaries, shoplifting) to pay for their habit. It also makes it unprofitable to be a drug smuggler because now the government are controlling the item instead.
Hopefully with this kind of thinking, we may not get rid of all drugs from our society, and it does not mean that people will not die from drugs * but it does take us to a point where we can control it and give help for those that require it, instead of locking them up in a prison where drugs are all too readily available.
*At present some people die from drugs because they are mixed with other substances. This cannot happen when thedrugs are controlled.
Just my opinion
Garth
I agree.
My point is that at present whilst some drugs (class A,B,and C) are illegal they are still sought after and are a menace to our society. The illegality of the drugs has not stopped drugs being imported into our countries or it being sold on the streets to anyone who wants them. Including school children.
And people are quite willing to risk prison sentences and in some cases (Thailland) death sentences to deal or import drugs.
Why is this?
Well because once you make something illegal the price goes through the roof for that product, and it makes it worth the risk to do such illegal activities for a quick return.
To use an analogy if we turn to ivory. Prior to the ban on ivory in Africa elephents were being hunted but they were not becoming an endangered species. Once the ban on ivory happened the price of ivory went up and it made it worth while to hunt elephents. In fact the number of poachers increased, and the elephents died to the point where they became an endangered species. And even harsh prison sentences did not deter the poachers.
The same is true with drugs, guns, alcohol. Anything you ban will gain a high price and people will risk their freedom and in some cases lives to furnish those items to a paying public. Look what happened in 1920s prohibition. Alcohol was banned, the price went through the roof which led to smuggling and gang land killings.
If however you lift the ban on drugs the actual price of the item drops. You move the illegality and the ones that have problems with drugs (The users) instead of hiding their illegal activities can openly seek help for their proble. Also as the price of the drugs has now dropped they re not having to commit crime (i.e. Burglaries, shoplifting) to pay for their habit. It also makes it unprofitable to be a drug smuggler because now the government are controlling the item instead.
Hopefully with this kind of thinking, we may not get rid of all drugs from our society, and it does not mean that people will not die from drugs * but it does take us to a point where we can control it and give help for those that require it, instead of locking them up in a prison where drugs are all too readily available.
*At present some people die from drugs because they are mixed with other substances. This cannot happen when thedrugs are controlled.
Just my opinion
Garth
cwfuturewrestler
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- Mar 23, 2008
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I am sorry to disagree here. and Gshambrooke and i have had differences in the past but i do agree with him here saying that acohol and drugs are destroying society.
many points of blame can be attributed, for one music, all these rappers talking about smoking pot and getting pissed totting guns and shooting people, saying **** the police and all that,
secondly, i having no children yet can say that the parent generation is to blame as well, no offence to those who do a good job but the fact is half of this could have been prevented if kids were brought up with proper values and respect for each other, however someone who lives in a disfunctional family will not know these things, so by being neglected at home directly leads to them taking it out on others to feel better about themselves whether it be in the street or in the school yard
thirdly, my mate and i discussed this the other night, our legal system gives the criminal all the rights, the right to remain silent so as not to incriminate themself, while the victim has to say everything that has happened to them reliving the horror, and also have the possiblity of so ****head of an attorney twist their words to make it seem as though it is not what they meant
fourthly, we say learn from our mistakes. well for over 3000 years we have been fighting wars killing each other, and what has that accomplished? is that really learning from our mistakes? some would say yes we create better weapons, and advances in technology, oh yeah that really good isn't it
over all we can sit here and talk about it till we are blue in the face, is it going to accomplish anything? no. for it is the individuals inability to act that is societies downfall, when walking down the street and seeing someone getting hassled or a fight starting we walk the other way, even in a crowded street, you know what i would rather jump in and try and stop it, get my ass kicked than know i had no backbone to help my fellow man.
They say its a dog eat dog society that is exactly what they want you to think so that we all stay segregated and as individuals. If we really wanted to stop the corruption and downfall of society it is going to be a unification of everyone, not just a group of people while the rest sit back and go hey there doing the right thing thats good, its action that needs to be taken, and as for the dog eat dog, well a dog is a slave they are loyal as long as you feed them and look after them, let me put it in perspective, we are the governments dogs and what do they do for us as a society? they get us to do their killing, they get us to pay there bills, they make us work so that they stay in a job, well i say its about time we bite the hand that feeds, ha realistically we are the hand that feeds and they continually bite us, so i ask don't you think its time we stopped talking and started walking?
many points of blame can be attributed, for one music, all these rappers talking about smoking pot and getting pissed totting guns and shooting people, saying **** the police and all that,
secondly, i having no children yet can say that the parent generation is to blame as well, no offence to those who do a good job but the fact is half of this could have been prevented if kids were brought up with proper values and respect for each other, however someone who lives in a disfunctional family will not know these things, so by being neglected at home directly leads to them taking it out on others to feel better about themselves whether it be in the street or in the school yard
thirdly, my mate and i discussed this the other night, our legal system gives the criminal all the rights, the right to remain silent so as not to incriminate themself, while the victim has to say everything that has happened to them reliving the horror, and also have the possiblity of so ****head of an attorney twist their words to make it seem as though it is not what they meant
fourthly, we say learn from our mistakes. well for over 3000 years we have been fighting wars killing each other, and what has that accomplished? is that really learning from our mistakes? some would say yes we create better weapons, and advances in technology, oh yeah that really good isn't it
over all we can sit here and talk about it till we are blue in the face, is it going to accomplish anything? no. for it is the individuals inability to act that is societies downfall, when walking down the street and seeing someone getting hassled or a fight starting we walk the other way, even in a crowded street, you know what i would rather jump in and try and stop it, get my ass kicked than know i had no backbone to help my fellow man.
They say its a dog eat dog society that is exactly what they want you to think so that we all stay segregated and as individuals. If we really wanted to stop the corruption and downfall of society it is going to be a unification of everyone, not just a group of people while the rest sit back and go hey there doing the right thing thats good, its action that needs to be taken, and as for the dog eat dog, well a dog is a slave they are loyal as long as you feed them and look after them, let me put it in perspective, we are the governments dogs and what do they do for us as a society? they get us to do their killing, they get us to pay there bills, they make us work so that they stay in a job, well i say its about time we bite the hand that feeds, ha realistically we are the hand that feeds and they continually bite us, so i ask don't you think its time we stopped talking and started walking?
sgtemorgan1
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- Apr 15, 2008
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Thats right, we could all do with a dose of Terrence McKenna