views on drug users

[ThatOldDingbat]

It would depend on the drug. I see pot as a far worse drug then X 'cos you can use it everyday and many do. A Saturday night escape is one thing but to live the life of a drug user, outside of normal society isn't ssomething I'd want for my son. However much 'fun' he was having.

 

[ojaibrad911]

And to have my dad getting on the piss every nights not something i'd want my son to experience, no matter how much he "needs" to relax

But I totally agree, in a perfect world. and i'd hate that the biggest buzz in my daughters life was to get stoned every day, but theres alot of people out there on something or another so chances are drugs are gonna cross your kids path. Just hope like hell they dont follow it, cos it doesnt work out that way all the time, thus we have drugs, and people who take them.

 

[AlexisInfectious®]

I'm hoping it skips a generation

 

[teresathegreat]

Koyos right - I live about a mile and a half from where he worked and I lived in some of the horror stories.

 

[coolkid]

I think that's the problem with drugs, everyone ignores the screw-ups and dropouts and thinks it can never happen to them. It does. Some play about the edge and think 'What's the problem?' All drugs, tobacco and booze included have big downsides, big enough to take a grown man down, Lifes a gamble but you can help control the odds. Listen to a hypocrite.

 

[atomicdoug171]

CORRECT It's alot harder to get help with the "secret" (socially unacceptable) sins than others.

It's something that has to be sorted out onya own....

 

[HAQER]

We can't talk here. THIS IS BAT COUNTRY!!!!!!

 

[ABSTRACTpoetic]

Fear and Loathing quote wins thread

 

[zwanamer]

What a cop out. Total lame cop out. What total load of BS.
You don't have to experience murder to know it's bad. You don't have to torture people to know it's bad.

Really... actually come to the table with something more than this tripe. Try working in an ER or and ambulance or as a medic and then tell them because they haven't done drugs they know nothing about them.

This is 12 year old logic at best.

 

[marilynfsmgm]

Its tit for tat though, most paramedics or whatever will see the bad side, the OD's and freakouts brought in, but really its just one side of the coin, and like everything in life its not black and white.

On the flip side, theres thousands of people who use and enjoy drugs problem free.

On the casualty side- every Friday and Saturday night about 80pc of ER is full of drunks/alchohol related injuries, yet I know plenty of nurses and doctors still enjoy a tipple themselves(even getting full blown hammered!)

There are wasters in all walks of life, and at the end of the day, its down to the fact that person is a waster. It doesen't matter if they are

"man its not me i have a drink problem"
"man its not me i have a *drug here* problem"
"I cant come into work today im "sick" "

etc.

You never hear the good news. Just the bad. Theres plenty of Doctors, University Professors, Martial artists, people, who have or do use with no problem.

Martial Dad is onto something though, it never crosses peoples minds that it may happen to them, they may be the waster. When all is said and done though, it happens whether legal or nay. Why do they exist? Why do they have these physiological effects on us? Who knows, but its part of the world we live in, and human culture, since many many years BC. And it always will be.

By arguing over how addicts "should be punished" or what we can do to "cut the serpets head off", these problems will not go away with the current approach govermend and law enforcment is taking.

The war on drugs began many many years ago, but how can you wage war on plants? Its not something we can fight, and arguing over the morality of it is absolutley futile and helps no one. If you're kid took the wrong turn, would you see them , on top of damage caused by a drug problem, stigmatised and punished? Or helped, set back on track. We all only live once, and need to remember this, we can't cast people aside because they are "druggies".



God, I rant!

 

[Nightrider]

The argument that drugs are acceptable because severe misuse of alcohol is equally harmful is the most bizarre logic.

Think about the dose-response curve of, say, beer against heroin, LSD or Ecstasy. You can go to the pub and have a civilized couple of pints with your friends; it's not possible to have a civilized syringe or two of heroin. The discrete "servings" of most drugs (with the possible exception of cannabis) deliver a "bottle of whiskey" worth of effect, not a "civilized pint of beer" worth - and that's the point!

I think it is a valid point to equate illegal drug use with excessive alcohol use. The difference is that it's near impossible to find a measure of drug use (particularly in the hard drugs) that equates to moderate alcohol use.

 

[xoxKElNIlJOxox]

I agree that drugs and alcohol cant be measured.

But there are many people that only drink alcohol for the sole purpose of getting hammered, a few of my friends do this and in their cases it because of the dislike of the taste of a good fresh pint (say late teens, although they themselves are in their early 20's). Its iofftopicture but its also gonna be the same sort of age group that will be dabbling in drugs IMO. Alcohol to them is just an escape from reality so in cases like these its probably no better than a gram of powder.

There are more cases of the social pint, obviously, but i would say this is in an older age group, possibly were drug usage is lower because of already dabbling or curiousity around drugs just isnt there anymore.

 

[ryandean360]

Fair enough if you're taking about it's immediate effects. And I can't think of any reason why a druggie would want to do a "pint-sized" equivalent of a harder drug. When I compare the two I tend to think more in terms of the long-term damage done, whether fatal or not, however. This article isn't about drug use, but it does make one think about just how serious the side effects from tobacco and alcohol are (scroll down to the table):

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/304/5672/804?ck=nck

In any case, I wouldn't advocate legalising drugs to make them acceptable, I'd advocate legalising them because by having the government control them, rather than pushers and drug barons, it would likely reduce the number of bad side effects of drug use. Not only for users but for non-users as well.

 

[SandyW]

The equation isn't so much to do with dose response, and I agree, threshold doses of LSD would leave you alot more dissacotiated than say a pint with you're pub lunch. But point is in most cases, is that if people are free to choose to drink to whatever amount suits them, then why should those who choose a different drug be chastised. Ideally, we'd hope if someone chose to dabble in LSD, they'd do it in a safe non-public enviroment, not on there lunch break. But back to the point, muppets like this do it legal or not.

But thats just the nature of certain drugs. I don't think anyone would suggest you be able to go to the bar and request a pint of Guinness and .2mg of LSD, with a packet of pork scratchings. I think everyone needs to seriously consider the proposal that the current strategy to tackle the drug issue/problem does no one but mobsters any good- they'd weep if it was regulated by anyone but them!

Often it seems the only alternative is to decrim or legalise, but we need some great thinkers to come up with a solution that suits all - that does not promote drug use, does not lead to easy supply, but at the same time, kills any blackmarket demand. Some "out of the box" scheme is needed for everyones sake.

 

[FranL]

Both substances are intoxicants; LSD and E however are sold in a consistency where users can feel the effects after one dose. The strength of alcohol in most pints is so weak that it will usually require several to reach a high level of intoxication. You're not comparing drugs, you're comparing the packaging. Imagine if that pint at lunch time was a pint of neat vodka. I'm pretty sure you'd be feeling the effects of alcohol before you'd finished your lunch.


Different drugs have different results. You wouldn't want to take a LSD trip at lunch sitting around a table with friends. You might want to share a joint though. In a dance club you wouldn't want to smoke salvia, you might fancy some E.

I think the largest problem with issue of drugs is that people tend to land them all in the same camp. All are seen as seedy, addictive and potentially fatal. I think one of the reasons that people claim that starting on cannabis lead them onto harder drugs is because they were told horror stories about it. Then they tried it and thought "hey this isn't so bad, they said it would ruin my life. Hmmm, they said that about coke too, so maybe I'll try that.". I think we live in an age now where people can be presented with the facts about these things and make up their own minds, rather than be told its all bad. At the start of this thread for example it was suggested that drugs will mess up your training. Well which drugs? All of them? Because I'm pretty sure Eddie Bravo would disagree with you on that one. Hell, I'm pretty sure he'd be happy to get stoned then choke you out just to prove otherwise.

 

[wild7cherrypepsi]

okay Brown what are the upsides to taking drugs? it makes you happy? i use comedy personally. my "harsh" views on drugs are that because its illegal no one controls what goes into processing them, and that it's the biggest earner for organised crime. If it helps in any way fund murde, kidnap, rape terrorism or whatever then i think i can have a bad view. the thing i wonder now is how much of the danger is the actual drug? I don't think cannabis is really that bad but apparently its now dangerous cos its prepped with arsenic and stuff. what if you made all drugs under class A legal, but any related health problems arht treated by the NHS?

 

[snailysnal]

I think (although this is debatable) in terms of long term harm, discounting damage caused by irregular strenths and contamination, looks vaugley like this

Alchohol - Overuse can lead to mainly liver problems, forms of hepatitus et etc
tobbac- we all know this one

Cannabis- Smoke of any kind is bad. If you ate it the most "real" danger is agitating dormant phycosis. unfortunatley, the only way to know if you have dormant phycosis is to find out. However if you have a family history best stay clear.

Heroin- Is actually a very safe drug on its own. Most deaths occur due to batches being of an inconsistent strenght- thus OD. Also doesn't combine well with alchohol. Gi

Coke- Short term, if you have bad circulation you may be asking for a heart attack. Long term you have a fair chance of turning into a nutter

Amphetemines (speed)- Amphetamine Phycosis is the biggest worry with these.

MDMA- Its fairly easy to pick up unadulterated MDMA crystals in the UK atm, so if the user is educated about dosage/hydration etc, the biggest risk run is that of Seritonin Syndrome. The unscientific explination of this is along the lines of it burns out receptors for certain hormones leading to mental unbalance. On a one off, it'll probabally do you no harm.

LSD/Mescaline et all- Seem to be relativley harmless surprisingly over a long term.


All of the biggest issues are due to long term excess, and similar things will be experienced if you eat too much choc cake etc..

The NHS treats all these problems anyways, so if under some "ideal" system, I would suggest the money made by the regulator/goverment on a particular drug is spent treating any problems related to it. Add to the fact that supply is more controlled, thus less ODs, AIDs from dirty sharing habbits, broken legs from owing dealers money....

 

[WeeNinja]

Sure thing, but we include alcohol and smoking related cases too. Deal?

 

[Sophiesmom]

Dude, we cant do that! The pharmaceutical industry would collapse! xD

 

[Galaxie]

Its simple, different drugs are used for different purposes. Alcohol is used to be social and have a good time, coke does the exact same thing. Gives you confidence and makes you extremely chatty.

E and Speed are big clubbing drugs but your not gonna sit down, slap a film on and drop a pinger but you may have a spliff. Relax, get some food in and get the giggles

They all provide a different feelings. E and Speed provide different feelings to each other even though they are generally used in the same environment

I agree that its bad that its funding all this mafia type wars etc which is why there are calls for all drugs to made legal. Although that could be a disaster itself.

Drugs are a danger but like anything it should be enjoyed in moderation. I know more people who have been in hospital from drinking too much cider than people who have been in hospital from any sort of illegal substance. To my knowledge, none of my friends have been in hospital from drugs. The only ones that spring to mind are friends of friends, one took 9 E's in half an hour and another had just done too many over the course of the summer repping in Ibiza. Ive heard the same horror stories with alcohol, the 'Hungry eyes challenge' anyone?