Tottenham Riots

[MasterAngGiGuong]

The amount of grief, paperwork, fallout and personal problems caused by a shooting is biblical in proportions

There is no way in hell he would be executed is they could have just arrested him - cops despise our paperwork at the best of times, and it is farcical to conceive this low-level drug rat would be worth "taking out"

 

[darksifer]

To which the reaction among the people already saying he was innocent is presumably that they're corrupt and protecting the police. I have no idea what equipment the police are using anymore but as far as I know "standard issue" for police weapons is pretty common ammunition so that bit could be true.
edit: As for the execution thing itself I would say its obviously bs but if its what people want to hear... Still don't see how it makes sense though. Menezes is the last guy I remember there being any reports he was "executed" and ignoring the suggestions it was SRR not the police, that was a suspected terrorist situation not your average drug dealer being nicked.


Indeed

 

[jethro27]

The IPCC have said that the family performed a formal identification, so if he had been shot in the face, they probably would have noticed.

 

[Snotface]

osu,


I do not think so, but i'll look with interest at facts, sources, numbers, measures over time, etc...

Are you saying that Americans have the most freedom because they have the highest level of convicts?
In that case, you ought to look back at the last 50, 20, 10 years and cry...


osu!



PS: I am not the champion nor the advocate of China, just a distant observer of what happened in the UK in this case.

 

[chrmdfreak]

They were high at the time maybe?

 

[LittleLaughter]

maybe your right but like I said earlier I very much doubt kettling would have done much tactically to help quell this type of riot, and your point about labels is certainly true, I didn't say you could never possibly hold another political view point on something, I was just pointing out that its scary how quickly a liberal will become a conservative when the going gets tough.

 

[Topper]

interesting theory, I hope for humanity's sake its not true though

 

[JesseR]

It is a philosophical and moral dichotomy that those who object to force being used on them to gain compliance with a POV will happily use force on someone to gain compliance with their POV

 

[loverlyerainbow]

that's been humanity since the dawn of time, shouldn't police forces be above such petty squabbles and play more of a peace keeping role ? maybe you are correct about this incident but it is not unknown for police forces to take incidents like this personally and start acting like just another gang.

 

[AndyD]

You may very well be right but it would of been nicer if the police had the option to contain them and have it fail rather than have a useful tool taken away from them because they're scared of the bad press.


Except you have missed my point. If a person who's generally liberal has always supported control techniques like kettling he hasn't "gone from" anything. I'm liberal in almost all social policies but I'm also a believer in the usefulness of violence as a tool. That doesn't mean I've forsaken my liberal ideals at all unless I had those ideals in the first place.
For example: I supported armed intervention in Libya pretty much from the outset. I've held my views on violence for a while so I was simply following on from my normal views on interventionalism and the usefulness of violence. Now if I had been firmly anti-war because I hated killing and believed it solved nothing but then suddenly advocated war in Libya when I saw it was a nasty situation you might be able to claim I changed my mind under pressure.

Not the best example but its all I can think of right now.

 

[HarleeMo]

We try and we are bound by a code of conduct that we are accountable for. Every single action we take needs to be evaluated and examined, often by committee.

Conversely those who riot - and I mean riot not protest - slap on a mask and blame it on society rather than the fact they are worthless

Peace keeping is ultimately what we want - I dislike rolling around in the mud and filth with criminals, but there comes a time where the hammer has to fall to keep that peace.

"Your rights end where mine begin" is a mantra that these rioters would do well to live by, but they won't because they are not idealists or dissillusioned - they are scum

 

[flyygurl]

ok your correct,Im no lover of the press in this country we all know there unfailing tendency to sensationalize, but for me its a fact that the met did not handle the student protests that started around about this time last year very well at all (im assuming that's the incident they got the bad press from that your referring to) and so they will probably have to live with the consequence's of that for a while. not least in how they tactically handle large angry crowds, is that a good thing or a bad thing ? neither really its just a fact.

 

[MollyHe]

mmmmmm but who is that hammer falling to keep the peace for the people or the state ? to be even more philosophical who ever gave you the right to drop the hammer, who orders this dropping of the hammer, who ever asked for there to be a hammer to drop.

 

[happywjc]

your not wrong, but I can think of many incidents were the same could be said of police officers. all Im saying is you have used some pretty harsh langue since the outset of this thread why not for a second try and see it from the other side.

 

[pawpyluv]

Student protests are the most recent but I don't think they've got over the G20 stuff yet either. You're right though that it has been abused in the past and the student protests were possibly and example (that said I had planned on going on the off chance there was a scrap. Hell everyone I knew who protested against the edl went so they could punch some racists in the face) but it was the past and shouldn't control all future police behaviour especially with things as volatile as protests. Buildings got burned down and shops got looted, only takes one kid to get trapped in a house and burned to death for everyone to change their tune and complain about the police not containing the protesters.

 

[x_Dominique_x]

Police are bodies of the state, government has control over the police, we have control over government. you can give all the talk about how we don't have any control over who runs the country and how they're all money grabbers but there's no other way they get in than by our vote. If people don't vote or choose to vote for only 1 of 2 parties thats their problem. Technically we could vote in a party that would disband the police and rely on militias if we wanted to.

 

[lsummer13]

You mean the side who burn down peoples homes, businesses, wreck their cars, threaten their lives and livelihoods?

Yes lets......

Ok Done....Still scum

This is not to stop a protest - i can even accept (up to a level) targetting the police as being state representatives.

But how can you serously sit there and say there are two sides to a story when these worthless turds just break stuff that is NOT state owned, steal stuff that is NOT state owned, burn down PRIVATE residences and generally make life a living hell for the NORMAL people

See things from that point of view? Why do I need to - i would not extend that courtesy to the Aryan Guard and i certainly will not extend it here

 

[Chlomo]

there were people on the news a few minutes ago who live in these areas, who's lives have been effected by these riots admitting they do not condone the violence but can understand the anger that caused it are they scum as well.

 

[jtgamer]

No of course not - and nowhere did I say that, nor would I so you can stop barking up that tree

Look if you think wrecking the homes and livelihoods of your neighbour is a way to stick it to the man and protest then you are scum as well as a criminal

If it was the police station, court building etc that was targetted then it is still a criminal act but at least it is a focused target.

Do you condone the actuions of the Aryan Guard or Combat 18 then?

 

[avb811]

Either way they're idiots if they think there was a genuine moral reason for the riot. People in Egypt or Syria had reasons to use violence, a bunch of chavs wanting a tv and a fight don't.