The world is messed up..

[ADULTWORKTVeCOeUK]

US govt. owes $7,606,300,995,267.87 in debt, that's seven trillion, six hundred and six billion, three hundred million, nine hundred thousand, two hundred and sixty seven dollars and eighty seven cents. Combining public and private debt, it's over $37 trillion.

To put the severity of this figure, consider this. Just looking at govt. sector for now which is over $7 trillion, if the US decided to pay off just five trillion of this federal debt at the rate of $1 per second, it would take around 160,000 years to pay it off.

And to think that most economies follow the US... does anyone see the USA willing to give up their superiority as #1 world economy and military power?

A depression, civil war, or another WWW is not out of the question IMO. Tick tock, tick tock ...

Civil war is possible with all the guns over there and each state blaming the other ones for the problems:

Texans used up all the oil.
Shut up, you rednecks!

A supposed time traveller by the name of John Titor said a civil war would break out this year, while it doesn't look likely, all hierarchial systems have had a time line. Think: communism lasting until '88, the roman empire only lasted so long and that was considered a huge power house of a nation.

Imagine going back to more primitive times like 'John Titor' reckons will happen, WORKING and FIGHTING merely for surival. While I doubt we will go back to more primitive times, at least not long-term, this could possibly be the end of capitalism as we know it? The US is apparently contemplating on bringing a new currency in which will be mainly electronically based I think, don't know a great deal about it..

 

[gypsygirl]

Sounds like this post is about the US only.
World?

Have you ever been to the US or lived here?
How do you know what is really going on over here?
State vs State?

I see you are what 20yrs old!

And why would the US give up it's power?

Do you dislike American's or something?

It is OK if that is how you feel, we believe in freedom over here!

 

[touchofpink]

I have to agree with BBD above. Do you just not like Americans? I've noticed that lately we Big Bad Americans are the punch lines of jokes and hated just because we are Americans. Well I find that kind of thinking to be the same as the Taliban's. Anyhow, What I do know about Americans is that while we might bicker and squabble amongst ourselves if an outside source invades our space or pushes us too hard we will bite. We will put down our collective differences and pull together in defense and defiance. It’s funny how we can be rabid that way but we believe in freedom and will defend it to the man woman and child. Just remember we have 4.7 guns per American and that’s quite a bit of lead coming at someone who draws our ire!

 

[DlMlX]

The Communists and the Nationalists united to fend off the Japanese, do you honestly think we would divide ourselves over party affiliation?

Besides, I cannot take that seriously because you mentioned John Titor. I am not completely pro America, but if anti American arguments revolve around John Titor....find me an American flag!

ROTF....John Titor...get a grip.

 

[Beatriz]

Andrew,

The deficit here in the States is a major problem, and it will have long-term effects on our economy, and as a result, on the rest of the world. Mostly, if not stopped, it will result in higher taxes, slowed economic growth, hyper-inflation, and possibly depression. On the short-term, we are mainly hurting ourselves, by increasing our trade deficit and eliminating most of our long-term savings. This is actually helping most of the rest of the world, by increasing their surplus trade, and helping their markets and foreign investment.

Make no mistake, if not fixed, the huge US deficit will create problems for the whole world (just because the amounts involved are so large). Eventually, it will tie up money supply, force interest rates up world-wide, and spread many of those same economic woes to other nations. You are right to be concerned enough to voice your concern, and even to lobby for change in our monetary policy from over there in your nation. However, we are so incredibly far from a civil war, that I really feel you need not lose sleep over that one (too many genuine problems in the world that you could lose sleep over ). It is too ingrained in our culture that we are 'one' people, to ever have those kind of regional conflicts again. The redneck/'bubba'/city/deep south divides you read about in the foreign press are hogwash, and really don't exist over here, except in late-night stand-up comic routines.

On the bright side, as far as the benefits of deficit spending: the US economy is large and robust enough that we were able to end the cold war by outspending the communists. From the Marshall Plan after WWII to the "Star Wars" initiative under Reagan, the communist economy could not keep up with the amount of cash we were able to devote (to rebuilding Europe after WWII and to developing defensive arms startegies in the '70's/'80's). Rather than fighting a war that would kill millions, we mortgaged our future and spent trillions. The end result was still liberty for hundreds of millions.

 

[hippomaiden]

My only concern is that since much of the American economy (especially in the South) is tied up with weapons manufacture - when the rate of international conflict goes down, these companies are sure to suffer.

On a pure economic level, war is great for the economy... it allows the use of weapons made by the West, increases demand, and sends millions to logistics/engineering/etc companies that are brought in to clean up the mess. Not to mention the tax incentives western countries are given as booty to invest in the shattered nation to rebuild.

People should stop thinking on economic terms. Growth or share price is NOT an indication of benefit or progress.

I just heard a report on the news that "fortunately", most of the places hit by the SE Asian tidal waves were poor so weren't insured... that means the big european insurance companies will protect their share price and not have to fork out millions of dollars (apart from the odd place in Phuket and the Maldives). Great huh - I'm really happy for those big cat german execs, sure I am.

 

[JennaG]

Oh, my God! You're right, young man! Look at all that debt!

Only one solution: NO MORE FOREIGN AID OR UNITED NATIONS DOLLARS FOR YOU LOT!!! I'll write my Congressman and get you all off the public teat and my wallet!

Guns cause war? I'll be sure to pass that along to the Romans, the Vikings, the Greeks, the Japanese, the Indians (East and West) or modern Africans (the Rwandans WISH they had guns so they could have prevented being hacked to bits and the Black Sudanese wish they had guns to kill their Arab oppressors about right now).

Funny my basement full of guns are well-behaved for some reason. No doubt they have plans to invade Canada. Those eeevil inert objects.

nzric, the defense economy is based heavily in Southern California.

If war is so great for the economy, why were the '80s and '90s so red hot when the U.S. was at relative peace (Clinton's adventurism notwithstanding)?

 

[DCBob]

This is the type of stereotypical characterization that drives me batty. It is exactly the type of thing I mentioned in my last post. It is completely inaccurate, but exactly what I have come to see as typically presented by many foreign press outlets.

NZRic, please don't take this personally: one of the things that I've really enjoyed about MAP is how it gives me a view into other nations' press and the points of view of a much more diverse group than what I would ordinarily encounter here in 'the States'. I have read many of your posts, and I know that generally, you are well-informed, thoughful, and hold your opinions with good, solid reasoning behind them (even in those cases where we disagree vehemently ). I am amazed, though, that people across the globe can see the same set of facts and end up with such diverse conclusions.

Anyway, back to my diatribe against the 'Bubbafication' of my nation, as presented in so many news outlets overseas:

With a little help from Dr. Google, I was able to find the following:
The current Gross Domestic Product of the United States (total value of all goods, services, agriculture, industry, etc. produced) is $10.99 trillion per year. This means our $7 trillion dollar debt is less a quarter, percentage-wise, of what the average American homeowner owes on his home mortgage.

Of this GDP, roughly 3.3% is spent on the military (making the US on a par with such military powerhouses as Egypt, Botswana, and Columbia). Of this 3.3%, more than half (approximately 60%) is spent on personnel, including salaries, health care, and payments to retired military personnel. The remaining 40% of 3.3% accounts for all other military expenditures, including all support services, facilities development and maintenance, consumables/supplies, and purchases, including everything from office furniture to tanks and satellites. That makes my best estimate of the percent of our economy tied up with weapons production to be significantly less than a per cent.

No, a significant portion of our economy is not tied up in weapons production (even in the South ). As far as the comment that 'war is good for the economy', well, that's nonsense. Any money spent on a war has to be paid for, through taxes and/or debt, hence all the earlier discussion about deficits and their negative impacts.

I agree totally that national policy should have higher goals than chasing $$. Perhaps the recent flood/tsunami disasters can provide each nation with the opportunity to respond from a humanitarian, rather than utilitarian, standpoint.

Regards,
Ann R.

 

[UCLAbasketball]

Hey Capt Ann

That's what I like about MAP - people will really spend the time to give info when they disagree. I live out of America, I've never been to America. It's difficult to speak to anyone out of america that doesn't a. hate (no, not too strong a word) Bush, and b. has a less than strident lefty liberal view of world relations. That's why it's a bit of fresh air to speak to people who, while maybe not thinking the same way as me, at least are informed and have made the decision to be a wining pinko leftie or on the gun totin' right, rather than just accept what they're told.

Ok, the problem is that what's small to the US is BIG to the rest of the world. Here's some figures I've found from Dr Google myself:

The comparison of military spending between America and the rest of the world (esp. "rogue" nations):
http://www.country-liberal-party.com/Pan-Americanism/pages/Pan-Americanism.b.htm

High income countries (16% of world population) account for about 75% of world military spending.

The US military budget is almost as much as the rest of the world's.

The US military budget is more than 8 times larger than the Chinese budget, the second largest spender.

The US military budget is more than 29 times as large as the combined spending of the seven “rogue” states (Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria) who spent $14.4 billion.

It is more than the combined spending of the next twenty three nations.

The United States and its close allies account for some two thirds to three-quarters of all military spending, depending on who you count as close allies (typically NATO countries, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan and South Korea)

The seven potential “enemies,” Russia, and China together spend $116.2 billion, 27.6% of the U.S. military budget.

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spending.asp


"The U.S. government is always near the top in total humanitarian aid dollars -- even before private donations are counted -- but it finishes near the bottom of the list of rich countries when that money is compared to gross national product."

Note that while you said 3.3% of GDP is tied up with the military (does that reflect the projections for the huge increase in 2005?), only 0.14% of GNP is spent by the US on humanitarian aid. Note the US politicians hark on about how many actual $$ they're giving in aid, not the percentage.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/12/28/stingy.americans.ap/index.html

You can't tell me that America accounts for 40% of a $950 billion a year industry, but it has absolutely no incentive to maintain this industry?! No matter what happens in the world, US plants (yes, and manufacturers in many other Western countries) will be pumping out the weapons at the same rate - if there's no demand for the 'product' you should be pretty darn sure that someone will be going out and trying to create some demand.

And yes, many places in the US are highly dependant on weapons manufacture, like many places are dependant on the local car factory or mining company (although cars and coal aren't designed specifically to kill people). This was a key part of Bush's re-election campaign... why do you think the US won't ratify the international treaty to ban landmines or to control the proliferation of handguns in the world?? Because weapons of war are a major export product and there's a lot of political donations that are designed to keep those wheels turning.

War is good for business. As a capitalist nation, the US is controlled in large part by big business (ooh, that's not going to go down well). War is great in a purely economic terms - not just on a geopolitical scale but also taking into account the business profits involved.

 

[InuYasha]

My opinion is that the world should be ruled by Daoists, Buddhists and Sufis from the mystic department.

More love and internal cultivation and less $$$$.

 

[Titan42]

No, I don't hate Americans. You think that a $7 trillion debt where you are only just making repayments on interest isn't a problem? The US is one of the major economies in the world, it affects other economies ...



Ooh, seems like you know your economics! Not an eco student or anything are you? Thanks for your reply.. you might know, is it true that the US plans to bring in another currency, or they've already made another currency?

Maybe we could discuss this over dinner and wine.

 

[ManonaMission]

ok i just did a little calculations, because when i read the $1 a second thing i was like ' wow thats a lot of money" but in reality when we are talking on a govermental scale it isnt. that would equal $31,536,000. while it is alot of money for one person, not more than a drop in the bucket for the government. thats one f-25 joint strike fighter.

 

[leow]

That might buy a wing. The going rate for an F-22 is 250 million.

I would quote Rodney King if I wasn't afraid to get pummeled.

World economics is not my gig. However I know the United States spends a fair amount on foreign aid and development, relief work, social programs etc. Our defense money is scattered about the county. Hell I work in a military program for the Boeing Co in WashingtonState.

 

[NeataJ]

I really have struggled as to whether I want to get into this silly discussion, but here I am.

1) Just because it is on a website does not mean the numbers are real or valid. Look at the sourrces and the reasons those sources collected numbers and what slants there may be there. That is if you want to be scientific about it.

2) Please do not argue about the amount of aid the U.S. or any other country gives. Aid is a gift and therefore is above judgement. If the United States opted to give $2 and nothing more, at least it would have given. With that said, teh U.S. is home to some of the world's greatest relief organizations, and as a nation gives billions of $ per year to aid other countries.

3) The national deficit of the U.S. back in teh 1970's was thought to be beyond repair, yet we were in the black in the 1990's. What appears to be a huge sum of $ now is not so large in the future, historically speaking. Yes, the deficit is rediculously large and gives us room for concern, however some person living on and island in the southern hemisphere to come along and criticize my country, well that just makes me upset. The United States is known for its military and fat war mongering citizens. Australia is known for guys with bowie knives wrestling crocodiles. If the stereotype about Australians is off, perhaps the stereotype about Americans is off, eh?

 

[DonE]

Im with you !

 

[NeedingaNewPhone]

Boy of boy....I hope my bud who now lives in Aussie land hasn't lost his love for his native country....................the Good 'ol USA!

 

[stephm]

Good point. Care to point out where the figures go wrong?


A gift is always appreciated. That being said if I gave someone a gift with a list of conditions that must be met once the gift is accepted it would seem to me that the 'gift' isn't so far detached from being a bargaining tool... Being critical of the US government's foreign aid policy is not the same thing as being critical of all the US people- US aid organisations to my knowledge are often very good.

It might also be worth your while researching how America got into the position of being able to give foreign aid. Developing countries aren't always in the situations they are in through their own mistakes... Taking the position that any country which receives aid should be happy with anything the mighty Western powers give them smacks of Imperialism and fails to recognise the debt owed by the priviledged countries to those that were exploited to get to those positions.

It might help you to stop associating criticism of your government as personal criticism of every American. The fact is that business plays a huge part in government policies these days and not just in America. Plenty of high up figures involved with American and International aid agencies are very critical of how aid is distributed and how much influence business has over the positions governments take towards developing and underdeveloped countries. In suofftopicry not all people who believe American's aid policy needs overhauled are silly non-American liberals who just want to bash the American people.

 

[baron]

My god, then the whole world would be a bleak, medieval theocracy like tibet was before the chinese were gracious enough to invade the damn place

 

[CYCPASAeJrulesPAWD2W]

I could be argued that Aid is a political tool, therefore, not a gift (because something is gained in return). For example, out of all the countries in the Middle East, Israel gets the most by a long long long way. Why could that be? Why not an equal distribution of aid? It could be fair to say that the other countries like Iraq or palestine need aid more than the more well off Israel.

 

[crazydude]

Yup, the world is a very messed up place.
Now.
Stop blaming everybody else for it.