The Fiasco continues... surprise, surprise

[pipperripper]

Actually, that is about all we have left. There are a great many that want us to leave so that they can go to war amongst themselves and there are those that don't wish to see civil war break out.

Going into Iraq was a HUGE mistake, however, that is no longer relevant at this point; we are there and we need to work something out before leaving. Right now, we have a segment of radicals that are annoyed with our presence. If we just pull out and leave the moderates in the interim government, we'll have a whole country that will harbor animosity towards us (Life rule #3, leave someone when they're down and need help and they'll never forgive you for it).

I may end up in this fiasco in a matter of months and Lord knows I'd rather not go there, but, we started this and we need to finish it.

 

[JeanetteG]

good god slip you complain about american an awful lot. i'd bet my bottom dollar your a muslim living in london!

 

[domesticgodess]

So someone who disagrees with something their country's government does must therefore be an enemy of their own country?

Very intelligent reasoning, Tekkengod!

Perhaps you haven't grasped the concept of being allowed to disagree with your own government in a democracy?

How many times now have we seen this line of 'reasoning' on MAP over the Iraq war?

 

[emilylikesveges]

Why am I not surprised that you take this tack?

I could list the number of reasons why this whole fiasco is absurd but...

1) They'd be lost on you

2) There probably isn't enough bandwidth here at MAP

If you actually have something intelligent to contribute to the thread do so. If not at least try to make yourself look a tad less silly. Not sure when the last time was you left your village but there are many people besides muslims in London who aren't exactly thrilled at the state of American foreign policy at the moment. Many of them Americans.

 

[Luz]

1. you come into religious threads and do nothing buy complain about me and contribute absolutely nothing every time you boot up the pc! lol im exercising my right to do the same.
2. the 2nd half of that first post was slightly sarcastic.

 

[mehdizadeh250]

nope! not at all, i was being slightly sarcastic, i dont like bush very much myself.

 

[Blackstroke]

ahh nice backpeddle.

I call you on your silly assumptions in religion threads because they're just that. Silly assumptions.

As for the sarcasm... you're getting better.

 

[KrystallEliseS]

The truth of the matter is all the Iraqi people ever wanted us to do was remove Saddam. They are perfectly happy to sort the rest out themselves. It will probably lead to civil war. But that's happening anyway. All we're doing is dragging out the pain of the inevitable.

If you end up over there I genuinely hope you make it back.

 

[Spam]

Do you honestly believe that the average Iraqi wants the troops to pull out, seeing as they are the only opposition to the Iraqi death squads.

 

[PeR]

I guess much of that question would depend on whether you were a Sunni Iraqi or a Shi'ite Iraqi.

 

[EvanS]

Somewhat. I guess what the Iraqi people really wnat is to have peace and be in charge of their own country. If the only way that can be acheived is by foreign troops withdrawing, then so be it.

 

[kiddy]

Depends on what time their death squad shift starts.

If we had let Iraqis form their own government without interference there probably wouldn't be as much animosity as there currently is towards the invasion force. But the fact is we did mess around with their affairs. We freed them from the grip of a dictator and started dictating how things should be done. We stormed in their without any appreciation for their way of life and we've stayed with the same attitudes.

 

[DevynC]

Thats crazy, without the British and American forces in place the country would have descended into all out civil war within weeks of Saddam being removed. People talk about the death toll now, it would be double or even triple that without the thin layer of protection afforded by those troops.

The arguments against the operation in the first place are numerous and largely valid, but the idea of just pulling out makes me feel sick.

 

[FavreFan]

And the idea of more of our troops dying for nothing makes ME sick. Unless somebody pulls a miracle out of their butt, there's virtually NOTHING we can do there. Yeah. We made progress. Now we're stalling.

 

[tattedmommy]

If the US pulls out now, what does that say to the families of the thousands of dead US soldiers? 'Yeah, they died for nothing but everyone makes mistakes' Iraq is not a lost cause, 25 years ago Northern Ireland was a lost cause, now there is peace because that is what the majority wanted, and given time the majority always comes through.

 

[fendarplaya]

If we pull out, it says that Bush and all his buddies have some explaining to do. Like why were they there in the first place. Cuz it wasn't about WMD's and it wasn't about terrorists.

You think we should really spend 25 yearstrying to bring peace there? When for hundreds of years it's been violent? How are we gonna be more capable of that than anybody else? I for one don't want my friends going over there so people can say "Give it another few years." Then "Give it another few years." Then "We're almost there. Give it some more time."

 

[THEPEOPLESCHAMPtCYCt]

It is not inevitable, it is likely, but not inevitable.
And every possibility for averting a civil war must be explored, not only for the current and unborn Iraqi citizen, but for the advancement, legitimacy and instigation of universal human rights, an ideal worth fighting for, no matter how long it takes or how often we fail, when in the end basic human rights will become guaranteed to every human being.

PS sorry I woun't be able to reply till tuesday

 

[Ebclaire]

There is no such thing as violent or not violent, you must refer to the level of violence, and how random. Either inside Iraq or inter-state violence.


Because the coalition has the best tools in both military and diplomatic terms, whether it will apply them effectively in the near future is another issue.


That is very a poignant point but to make the most effective policy in the long term we must look objectively at which options will be the lesser of two evils ie result in the least human suffering. It is inevitable there will be many more deaths whatever the coalition does.

 

[MelyssaA]

Its our responsibility now, Saddam had control, sure it wasn't perfect and a lot of people were still persecuted and killed, but there was never this level of disorder in Iraq before we got there.

 

[EmilyT]

Which means we never should have been there in the first place! Or we should have at least dealt with it more effectivley. By you know, actually listening to the military.

Now I'm just venting. Ignore me.