Ljoll, again, I am not supporting what the officers did in the video but there has to be some responsibility placed on this vicitim too. I believe he should have been allowed to speak his mind but he was acting like a donkey. The officers tried escorting the man from the dais and he pulled away from them as the 2 officers were walking him out. He then moved back toward the front of the room (towards Kerry) and was ranting and raving. 2 more officers join this little dance. One rather large officer lifts the man off the floor and removes him from the front of the room. Once the victims feet hits the floor, he fails to comply with the officers.
The moment he pulled away from the officers, right or wrong, he has just escallated the situation. Had he just walked out.... no issues!
It's almost not going to matter what gets posted - it seems the closer to reality some of the posts get... the further the reality some of the responses get.
There is a certain crowd here at MAP that will drone on with academic arguments as if the situation somehow existed in a vaccuum. Most times it's people with very little first hand experience of dealing with cops themselves. So I don't really find it surprising that they fail to see why one should be held responsible for their actions - especially when those actions escalate a situation to no advantage for anyone. That part of the conversation even went down the road of 'Why should we have to comply with police demands' shows the absurdity of it all.
I have seen more then one example of a cop miss using a taser there is one going around with a woman now. The classic example is when the cop uses the taser then orders the suspect to put their hand behind their back but does not give them time to recover enough to comply, then hits them with the taser again. This set up a cycle which the suspect is repeatedly tased until the officer finely gives the suspect time to comply.
This use of the taser did not seam to be out of line. The cops used it no more then necessary to control the suspect.
Some people here think the cops all should have jumped on the guy and held him down. This is dangers due to compression suffocation. Check out the stats on that. Also you have the danger of all types of injuries with everyone flawing around.
Tasers and pepper gas was supposed to be a fix for fighting suspect to bring them under control or using deadly force. They are only tools and as tools they can and will be misused. There are plenty of lazy cops that misuse these tools and there are far too many that use them as devices for their amusement.
oh dear Lord. Obviously unequipped to handle an autistic person.
Social impairments become apparent early in childhood and continue through adulthood. Autistic infants show less attention to social stimuli, smile and look at others less often, and respond less to their own name. Autistic toddlers have more striking social deviance; for example, they have less eye contact and anticipatory postures and are less likely to use another person's hand or body as a tool.[18] Three- to five-year-old autistic children are less likely to exhibit social understanding, approach others spontaneously, imitate and respond to emotions, communicate nonverbally, and take turns with others. However, they do form attachments to their primary caregivers.[21] They display moderately less attachment security than usual, although this feature disappears in children with higher mental development or less severe ASD.[22] Older children and adults with ASD perform worse on tests of face and emotion recognition.[23]
Contrary to common belief, autistic children do not prefer to be alone. Making and maintaining friendships often proves to be difficult for those with autism. For them, the quality of friendships, not the number of friends, predicts how lonely they are.[24]
There are many anecdotal reports, but few systematic studies, of aggression and violence in individuals with ASD. The limited data suggest that in children with mental retardation, autism is associated with aggression, destruction of property, and tantrums. Dominick et al. interviewed the parents of 67 children with ASD and reported that about two-thirds of the children had periods of severe tantrums and about one third had a history of aggression, with tantrums significantly more common than in children with a history of language impairment. In a pair of studies, high-functioning autistic children aged 8–15 performed equally well, and adults better than individually matched controls at basic language tasks involving vocabulary and spelling. Both autistic groups performed worse than controls at complex language tasks such as figurative language, comprehension and inference. As people are often sized up initially from their basic language skills, these studies suggest that people speaking to autistic individuals are more likely to overestimate what their audience comprehends.
-Volkmar F, Chawarska K, Klin A (2005). "Autism in infancy and early childhood". Annu Rev Psychol 56: 315–36. DOI:10.1146/annurev.psych.56.091103.070159. PMID 15709938.
-Filipek PA, Accardo PJ, Baranek GT et al. (1999). "The screening and diagnosis of autistic spectrum disorders". J Autism Dev Disord 29 (6): 439–84. DOI:10.1023/A:1021943802493. Erratum (2000). J Autism Dev Disord 30 (1): 81. doi:10.1023/A:1017256313409. PMID 10638459. This paper represents a consensus of representatives from nine professional and four parent organizations in the U.S.
-Sacks O (1995). An Anthropologist on Mars: Seven Paradoxical Tales. Knopf. ISBN 0679437851.
-Sigman M, Dijamco A, Gratier M, Rozga A (2004). "Early detection of core deficits in autism". Ment Retard Dev Disabil Res Rev 10 (4): 221–33. DOI:10.1002/mrdd.20046. PMID 15666338.
-Rutgers AH, Bakermans-Kranenburg MJ, van IJzendoorn MH, van Berckelaer-Onnes IA (2004). "Autism and attachment: a meta-analytic review". J Child Psychol Psychiatry 45 (6): 1123–34. DOI:10.1111/j.1469-7610.2004.t01-1-00305.x. PMID 15257669.
-Sigman M, Spence SJ, Wang AT (2006). "Autism from developmental and neuropsychological perspectives". Annu Rev Clin Psychol 2: 327–55. DOI:10.1146/annurev.clinpsy.2.022305.095210. PMID 17716073.
-Burgess AF, Gutstein SE (2007). "Quality of life for people with autism: raising the standard for evaluating successful outcomes". Child Adolesc Ment Health 12 (2): 80–6. DOI:10.1111/j.1475-3588.2006.00432.x.
-Dominick KC, Davis NO, Lainhart J, Tager-Flusberg H, Folstein S (2007). "Atypical behaviors in children with autism and children with a history of language impairment". Res Dev Disabil 28 (2): 145–62. DOI:10.1016/j.ridd.2006.02.003. PMID 16581226.
Domino, what was the purpose of all that Autistic info? Should the police have to know about every psychological issue? (Not defending the action to tazer him, seemed a bit inappropriate, but the full situation isn't described).
A) It's to cut off folks who are probably going to post misinformation
B) The reality is that mosy officers are thoroughly unequppied to deal with the mentall ill, and the lame rationale is "at least the kid is alive"?!? Crap like this will continue to happen until LEOs are properly trained!
C)
A very easy judgment to make from your cozy spot behind the keyboard eh?
Probably a very different call to make when you actually are having to wrestle some idiot who's trying to resist removal. If he's ready to resist arrest or removal... what next? Should they wait until a bystander is hurt? Until one of the officers is hurt? Or what about the suspect himself is hurt?
What... was he supposed to now be a mental health worker too? But thanks anyhow for the basic info on autism... not sure how that changes anything in the situation. Everyone knew the kid is autistic... it says so in the initial article.
The article doesn't say that the officer knew the kid was autistic and from a ways off I'd be willing to bet that most people wouldn't know it was even kid. Most likely the person that reported him acting suspiciously didn't know he was a kid - the article certainly doesn't say that.
The kid got zapped. I think it's far more gentle if he had been tackled by a cop or tried escaping by running across a busy road and being hit by a car. If the kids not going to stop when an officer calls him why would he suddenly turn and give up calmly and peacefully when tackled. Not exactly a response that I'd expect from an agitated autistic kid.
Seems to me the kid didn't come out any worse for the wear and probably came out a whole lot better than if the cop had given chase and had to tackle and struggle with his silly ass.
The mother is bitching and moaning because she's not able to control the kid and when an officer does in the best interest of the kid... she still bitches and moans.
Ahh cool, i have quite a firm grasp of Autism and stuff from friends and family (mum used to work with the handicapped as a teaching assistant). I think the "at least he's alive" is a bit of a joke too, does make me wonder how the whole thing was approached by the police to begin with ie, why they had to tazer and cuff him. I mean surely asking him to stay still politely first like they do in England probably would have sufficed and maybe a basic hold, but a Tazer??? Only if he fought back and ran into traffic or something (which isn't said in the story and i bring it up purely to see a way it COULD be justified)
Which makes no sense... because he was causing a problem.
On top of which they attempted to remove him peacefully but he wasn't havin' it was he. If you watched the same vid... clearly not. Not after he was on the floor... not after it took 4-5 officers to restrain him... not after he was in the process of getting cuffed... not even after he was tazed did he use his head... not by a long shot. Not even after he was handcuffed.
I'm still curious who cut his mic? The event organizers? Surely the police didn't just walk by the event of their own accord right? Surely it wasn't just the police who thought the guy was a complete ass.
So let's see... he's not followed orders... he's been asked to step outside... he's caused a huge interruption to the forum... he's been a complete ass... he's run around screaming like a big girl... almost no one stepped up to help him or even mentions anything about him... obviously... they're not thrilled with the drama queen... and your solution is to not remove him?
Re taser fatalities
http://content.onlinejacc.org/cgi/content/full/j.jacc.2006.03.055v1
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/07/nonlethal_weapons_not_liberal.html
Looks like if your heart is already under stress from all the chemicals you have ingested a taser may put you over the edge.