Israel Blockades Lebanon

[suziejoyrevised]

Ok and did it result in a massive weakening of Jewish 'culture'?
What is your definition of culture?



err... sorry but I doubt it. If you explain it eloquently enough I am sure a non-Jew could understand it.



How so?
According to you it's not a race. So what is it about being Jewish that makes it oooooh so much more than being a 'culture'?




I still don't buy the whole 15 million-so-let's not water down the stock bit. That has got to be the most trite arguement ever.

 

[sithis1426]

That is similiar to debates that are happening in immigration reform all the time. Their are quota systems for immigration and some support modifying the percentage for certain countries positively or negatively based upon how they cooperate with us.

 

[Zarncar]

He said hard time understanding it, not impossible. I can explain how to read ethernet packets but it still goes over most people's heads.



I think it may have to do with being Jewish is a culture based on ethnicity and religion as opposed to being a culture based upon geographics, ethnicity, or religion. When I think of Irish Catholics, I usually really think of Irish and Catholic is a kind of addon descriptor at best, for most. Whereas when you think of Jewish, I often think of the strict orthodox Jew.

Since I am not Jewish, anyone please feel free to correct me.

 

[J3y]

However we do not restrict citizenship rights based solely upon ethnic/relgious/nationality.

Nor do we restrict the movements of certain ethnic/religous/nationality groups.

 

[csigeoffrey]

My Grandparents on my Mom's side were more or less ostracized because they chose to be Catholic instead of good German Lutherans. When my Mom, a Catholic, married my Dad, a Methodist, neither church would give them a church wedding.

 

[CherylL]

Yes - I have bought Jaffa oranges (and Israeli artichokes, mange tout, and whatever). Now I'm saying that I'll check the label first.

I also think that we need to be clear that this is concerned with the actions of the country of Israel, and not people of the Jewish religion.
I don't think that Hezbollah is concerned with wiping out the entire world population of people who are born or choose to be Jewish, but rather the population of the country of Israel.
So the conflict is not about being Jewish, but about being Israeli.
As far as I can see, these are not one and the same.

 

[AlexisInfectious®]

[

You are mistaken here. Hezbollah's immediate goal might be wiping out the people of Israel, but their long term goal is to wipe out everyone in the world that refuses to become a Muslim. Israel is just the closest battleground. Once Israel is gone, they will move on to a different battlefield, such as Spain, France, or Hungry; anywhere that used to be in Muslim hands, but is not any longer. In a very real sense, the conflict is about being Jewish. Or being Christian, or Hindu, or Buddist, or anything that isn't Muslim.

 

[elie101_forever]

So we should be gratefull they only want to wipe half of us out??

 

[TadM]

You're pretty close.

I grew up in Montreal. I did not grow up Orthodox, we lived in a French Canadian area. Actually went to Catholic school, as that was synonymous with public school at the time. I absorbed a lot of French-Canadian culture without being Catholic, the foods, music, etc. It's a lot harder to do with Jewish culture since so much of it is based on Torah.

 

[RileyS]

You're right, they are not. And that shoots down the whole Israel=Apartheid thing. Roughly 15% of Israelis are not Jewish, with a sizable Arab population. And they have representation in the Knesset.

OTOH, if the UN Partition plan would have split the British Mandate in 2 Arab state, the conflict would not have existed. So it is about geting rid of the Jews.

 

[SuperDuper1]

Yes you do. As a Canadian, it is a lot harder to become a US citizen than somebody from a lot of European countries. We are not even allowed to participate in the Green Card lottery. Any country can restrict who can become a citizen. And non-citizens are not free to go anywhere, at any time. Remember that Gaza and the West Bank are NOT part of the country of Israel.

 

[raccoonkisses]

Quick flick a sharp knife and that could be corrected.....

 

[Blavent]

Israel is not alone in the way it chooses to grant or deny citizenship. Even liberal Europe has what many Americans would call 'racist' ideas about how citizenship should be dealt with:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/28/news/journal.php

http://www.germany.info/relaunch/info/consular_services/citizenship/generalinformation.html#q2

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_SAUDI_ARABIA.html

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_ISRAEL.html

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_ITALY.html

http://www.multiplecitizenship.com/wscl/ws_EGYPT.html

As you can see, many countries have laws that establish citizenship requirements or ease of entry based on ethnicity or religion. Israel is not out of the mainstream in this way. Personally, I don't really agree with racial, ethnic, or religious criteria, but that might be because I'm an American. On the other hand, I support the right of any country to determine the criteria of who can become a citizen, even if it is racist, sexist, or otherwise offensive, if only because I'll be damned if I'd let some liberal pinko European that hasn't had a bath in 3 days tell me who I can or can't let become an American.

 

[arthurpogo1019]

And did you ever buy that food wanting to support Israel? I would guess the answer is no, especially since you avoided answering it the first time.

I am not so sure that it is limited to just eliminating just the nation of Israel. Wasn't their a comment by Arafat's wife that their would no peace as long as one Jew was left alive? I remember the comment being talked about but can't remember whether she limited it to Jews in Israel or not.

 

[ILikeToast]

err... being that he knew it's product that comes from Israel and that most likely some percentage of what he pays for it goes back to Israel then I'd imagine that he knew by buying the oranges it was in essence supporting Israel.

Which would also be the reason he brought it up in this thread.

It's pretty obvious that he didn't think it was supporting Cincinnati, Ohio.

 

[JaDATH0N]

I'm not sure what she said from the comfort of her $16,000 a day hotel in France, courtesy of the international aid to the Palestinian Authority, but you can rest assured that Hamas and Hezbollah will not stop with Israel or even every Jew. The bottom line for them, as with any organization affiliated with either Al Qaida, the Muslim Brotherhood, or Iran's Shi'a framework is that nothing short of the world-wide domination of Islam as the faith of everyone will end the hostilities. You essentially have three choices: convert, live as second class citizen (as long as you're a person of the book. Hindus and Buddists don't have this option), or let them saw your head off. So it would not surprise me at all if she said that every Jew has to die.

 

[g3haunted]

Here's another great example of the kind of zeal Israel's enemies approach the conflict with:

http://www.snopes.com/religion/blood.htm

And I thought the NY Post was inflamatory.

 

[KillerKahle]

You know, as well as everyone else, there is a big difference between buying a product that you know, at least subconciously, is from an area and buying the product to support the area. For instance, before the lack of French support for the Iraq war, plenty of Americans bought French wines. Many stopped in protest of the perceived lack of French support. Yet they were never buying French wines to support France. It was purely incidental. They had never given a second's thought about supporting France. As I assume the case is with Prowla, they only changed buying habits because of their disdain.

And btw, Jaffa is still listed as a Palestinian city even though it is occupied by Israel. So who is really getting the profits? Or does anyone even know?

 

[GirthMcGarnagle]

I don't think the difference is that great. Spend some time in manufacturing or in agriculture and then perhaps maybe you'll give more thought as to benefits from the proceeds of a given product. I tend to be very aware of the products I buy and where their grown or manufactured.

Perhaps most Americans don't care or are simply too insulated from the rest of the world to really know where the country of manufacture actually is.
Ignorance is bliss as they say.



There weren't really that many that stopped. I think this was decidely more media hype than anything else. There still is no French support for the war in Iraq - have Americans stopped drinking French wines all together?
Hardly.



ahh... well suit yourself - you know what happens with assumptions.

 

[Zen]

I agree, the japanese internment camps in the deserts were certainly concentration camps as is GITMO. The nazi's just took it to a new height of cruelty.