The only thing I questioned about homosexual's raising children is the healthy psychological development of the child, but then I realized was wrong. A emotionally stable and loving realtionship between two individuals is what matters the most in a child's development, whether the realtionship is homosexual or heterosexual. Though my preference is ideally towards a realtionship between a male and a female, I cannot condemn nor dictate those that choose to live differently, especially when the outcome is this. America is not a theocracy, its a democracy and the government should be living up that regardless of the public's objections. America should be focusing more on factors such as the level of crime, obesity and jobs rather than contemplating whether or not gays should marry. If homosexuals want to marry, then let them by law. If some want to support it or object against it, then let them by choice, but within the law.
Thanks to Chadderz (in our previous discussions), I've opened my eyes and looked further.
Do I accept gay marriage within the community? Yes, because I support freedom of choice and equal treatment that every individual should entitled to.
People used to say similar things about interracial relationships. I don't see why you should have a problem with it if it isn't affecting your liberties or isn't even inconveniencing you in anyway. Also, "alternately accepted way of life" implies that there is a choice. They didn't choose to be gay any more than you or I chose to be straight.
Also I think a distinction needs to be made between "mate" and "procreate." Gays can't do the latter one(unless they use artificial means). People are meant to mate with their right hand or what I thought was a light-sabre, yet everyone does one of those or the other. Do you share the same aversion to that particular action as you do to homosexuality?
I am also kind of confused why you think that gays think it is normal. In fact there have been more than a few suicides in recent years by young adults who were unable to cope with how un-normal they were made to feel. Most gays that's I've talked to have had hard time dealing with it at first and it caused them a lot of stress.
I can explain how I feel about the general acceptance that homosexuality is a natural human behavior. I'm just not sure anyone here wants to entertain this discussion. My point is that although homosexuality exists it doesn't mean that it needs to be, or should be, mainstreamed into society to the point that it is considered normal behavior. It is, by all intensive purposes, an alternative to traditional relationships. It should IMO be treated as an exception to the rule, if the law of the land is marriage between a man and a woman, and that law is accepted by the majority of the people, then that law should be upheld. And to contest a law on a flawed behavior is not for the greater good of the majority of the population. The continued deterioration of the traditional family unit is IMO detrimental to the future of our society, whether it be same sex relationships or absentee fathers, or drug addict parents.
Please don't take my statements as hating, or prejudiced, that is not my intent.
I'm interested in how this will be received as I'm sure that it won't win me any popularity contests.
Yes you got that wrong Zaad, but I can see how you came to that conclusion. I think perhaps for some it is a choice, for some it's not. In a discussion with a good friend of mine I got beer courage on and we had a very in depth discussion on how and when she decided to "bat for the other team", and she said that her experiences with men had left her with the conclusion that the only thing men were concerned about was their own pleasure...go figure ...she had had a close encounter with another girl as a teenager, she decided to try it out again and she liked it.
I think for those for whom it isn't a choice IMO it could have been caused by an outside influence of some kind or it's a glitch in their genes.
I think perhaps I've caused enough trouble here for this discussion.
They are trying to become accepted, not the social norm. They aren't trying to convert you.
That is absurd. Do you think the laws concerning slavery, women's rights, ethnic rights, labour laws, ect.. should never have been changed because they were popular at the time?
Homosexuality isn't a behaviour it's a sexual orientation. I fail to see how letting to two guys or two girls get married will have any more of an effect than letting interracial couples had an effect decades ago.
So now same sex relationships are on par with drug addicted parents? Two loving, financially stable parents whom have to go through potentially years of screening to get an adoptive baby are on the same lvl as two drug addicts that probably popped one out while on a bender????? Have you thought about this much?
Could it be at all possible that your friend was a lesbian all along and that's why she didn't have good experiences with men?
Do you think so people choose to be straight?
I've had a lot of bad experiences with women, I know many men who have. But I don't know one guy who decided he had enough and decided to start sleeping with men.
That being said, I've only known one guy who said he wasn't always gay. He told me he had been raped and that was traumatic enough to change his sexuality. I can't say for sure if he was gay or not before that, but it still wasn't a choice he made.
Much of this has been because of the existing attitudes towards homosexuality. So it's not really surprising that it's not be championed until only recently. Cultures change slowly - being that American and European countries basically are built on a Judeo-Christian heritage that holds homosexuality as wrong/evil/sinful... it's not surprising that the issue is one that is very touchy. It's only been a very, very short time that it's not completely taboo to discuss the subject openly and in mixed crowds. I can think back even 10 years ago and it wasn't an option in any conversation.... I worked in many companies that were gay dominated and even then everyone was well aware that it wasn't always socially acceptable to put being homosexual at the forefront of the conversation.
As for 'ignoring terrible hetro parents' - do they get ignored more or more intentionally than gay parents? I think if you look at the whole system for dealing with abusive parents you'll find that it's a very, very broken system. Go a step further and look the issues with foster families and foster homes and you'll see that it's a pretty grim picture. All in all I fail to see though how any of that accounts to bad hetro parents being ignored.
Frankly this sounds like the typical overly PC stance trying to use two wrongs to make a right.
Do they? How would you even know? What sort of proof of this do you have. I think you're doing a massive disservice to hetro couples who work hard to raise their kids.
I've known/know a fair number of lesbians and it seems they almost always have been through some form of abuse by males either at the hands of their fathers/brothers/uncles or someone growing up. Not surprisingly I meet a fair few women of this orientation in the boxing/muay thai/fight world.
This has also been heavily present in many of the gay guys I have known/know. Again... it always was my impression that one major underlying factor in their sexual orientation was having been abused as kid. Not to say it's a rule and to be gay you have to have been abused. But it does often seem a common response to repeated or traumatic abuse as a kid. It's a very sensitive subject as you obviously can't say 'well dude you were gettin' hammered as kid by your uncle so of course you now relate to men in a sexual way'... that's just not going to work. But I have a quite a few friends that are gay and I always more or less guessed it growing up. Many times I'd here of how much they hated their father or an uncle... but no real relation to their sexual orientation... and then in several cases... many years later... still having a solid friendship with them it'd come up in conversation and I'd get more of a full story. Of course I'm supportive. They're my friends no matter what... but I did notice this seemed to be something of a common trend. Of course this is all anecdotal and I don't know that any of it's either here nor there. But it does always come to mind when the sexual orientation discussion comes up.
Come to think of it the one openly gay poster here at MAP who was also a fairly long time member and all around good guy was Gangrel Childe - haven't seen him post in ages. Anyone know if he's still about?
You're a good fellow, nice person. Thanks for answering me
when you talk bout how thinking it is normal to mate with the same sex, do you mean that it is abnormal, like when people said to me before that I am an anomaly and abnormal because i am a woman and I dont like babies or want to be a mother? Do you mean like that some of us are different and not like the majority?
I'm afraid history doesn't back you up in this statement. What you are calling the traditional family unit is actually a post war construct. The idea of the nuclear family is a modern one and actually the complete opposite of traditional family. In fact traditional families are large flexible extended clans. The nuclear family is actually a very vulnerable family structure. It places the burden of childcare on too small a number and as we have seen this destroys many of these families. The stronger family is a larger group with disverse social and economic skills. This is a family that can withstand the stresses of a modern world. If you want a strong family bind more people into it. Homosexuals bring new perspectives and expand your family's social flexibility. So they are valuable members of any family and you don't have to compete sexually with them. Double bonus.
That I could understand, but changing teams because you thought most men were only interested in their own pleasure? Sounds more like an excuse than a reason to me.
Compete sexually with a family member? I am not sure I want to know what goes on at your family get togethers.
Funny most of the lesbians I know too have had bad experiences with men. Though I read some recent research that demonstrates that women are sexually more flexible than men in general. So if it doesn't work with one sex it makes sense to try with the other.
What you've never seen two brothers go after the same girl. It's like a fricken terrier fight over a fresh killed rat.
I agree, but I think it just depends on how you define "bad experience." If someone has been abused, I could see how that might affect them. But if they say became a lesbian because weren't getting pleasured sexually from men, then I would assume that they either were bi or homo from the beginning.
As long as that girl isn't your cousin, then it's all good.
The last time I seen him around his user name was 'Davey Bones', but that's been quite some time ago. (If you check the profile it says his last activity was in 2008.)
Parades? Really? I mean, of all things to get offended about, I would never expect parades to be one.
I mean, St. Patrick's Day parades are common all across the US so do you call out Catholics for that?
This makes more sense to me. Not, I hope, because you think it's "wrong," but because a child will be more balanced if they have both a masculine and feminine presence in their lives.
Totally true. The real problem is militancy on either side of the coin. I'm personally an agnostic, but come from a Christian background. I can tell you from experience that militant theists and atheists can be equally intolerant.
I will be the first to say that I haven't done any sort of extensive study regarding the matter, but in all such circumstances that I've been privvy to, nature has taken its course . . . on way or the other.