Alcohol and Drugs are destoying our society.

[debbie2243]

My advice to anyone who wants to come to Melbourne, dont bother you will not be safe, this kind of stuff happens every day, no one is safe on our streets anymore, our comunities might as well be segregated, our government is a joke and the police force are like a snake with no fangs and our judges they do not live on this planet.




http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/250809_Brumby_Safe_Streets_Party_Buses.mp3


Suburban footy grand final halted after on-field brawl
FOOTAGE of an on-field brawl which resulted in the cancellation of a suburban football grand final on Sunday will be reviewed by the Northern Football League's tribunal.

Northern Football League general manager Kevin Crompton said he believed alcohol, brought to the Greensborough-Preston RSL under-17 grand final illegally and apparently consumed by Preston supporters, resulted in about 10 Preston players being ''revved up'' before they turned on their Greensborough opponents.

Alcohol has been banned from north suburban junior football games since 2007.

''These are 17-year-old boys who are pretty easily influenced, and at quarter-time and half-time breaks, unfortunately these kids took notice of what some of the spectators told them to do instead of listening to their coach,'' Mr Crompton said.

He said Preston's president intervened and called off the game in the final quarter, with Greensborough winning the match.

Mr Crompton said the DVD footage would be scrutinised by the league's tribunal when it meets next Tuesday night. Players found to have breached league rules could face suspension, which would be served next season.

The brawl was one of two incidents to hit the league's grand finals on Sunday.

Mr Crompton said Sunday's match between South Morang and North Heidelberg was interrupted by a mother who expressed her displeasure at an umpire's decision. But the game concluded with South Morang winning by 23 points.

Last week, Charlie Tannous, 19, of Westmeadows, was charged in Melbourne Magistrates Court with seriously injuring a teenage spectator with a mallet at an under-16 preliminary final between Essendon District Football League clubs Tullamarine Demons and Northern Saints.

The attack left 17-year-old Tutaki Olsen briefly knocked out. He was later treated in hospital for a suspected broken jaw.


Police officer hit from behind
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-generic-blog/police-officer-hit-from-behind/20090823-euue.html


http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/240809_Robert_Doyle.mp3


http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/240809_Party_Bus_EDIT.mp3


'Horrific' stabbing of woman
Posted by: 3AW Radio | 23 August, 2009 - 2:23 PM A woman was found by ambulance officers on Sunday morning walking in Melbourne's CBD with serious stab wounds to her face and upper body.

Ambulance officers drove the woman to Royal Melbourne Hospital after they were called to a report of an injured female walking in Francis Street around 6:30am.

She had a deep cut from the below her lip around to behind her ear, as well as a cut to the top of her head and a stab wound to the abdomen.

While the 34-year-old woman from Cairnlea is not in a life-threatening condition, police have described her injuries as 'pretty horrific'.

Detectives are yet to speak with the victim and to establish the circumstances around the stabbing, including where and when it occurred.

They are appealing for anyone who may have witnessed the assault or seen the Asian woman in the vicinity of the Melbourne CBD this morning to come forward.


Victoria Police releases crime figures
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/3aw-generic-blog/victoria-police-releases-crime-figures/20090809-edyv.html


Overland on convicted cops
http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/110809_Overland2.mp3


Brumby on Melbourne violence
http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/110809_Brumby_Violence.mp3


Police officer took ecstasy
http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/110809_Overland1.mp3



Terror: Invasions and bashings
http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/140709_Home_Invasion.mp3


Bashed: 'I just said grow up'
http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/140709_Dandenong_Attack.mp3


$10 dare led to student's death
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/blog-with-derryn-hinch/10-dare-led-to-students-death/20090803-e729.html


Police hunt six more over CBD bashing
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/blog-with-derryn-hinch/police-hunt-six-more-over-cbd-bashing/20090813-ejm3.html


Angry dad highlights system failures{This is bad}
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/blog-with-derryn-hinch/angry-dad-highlights-system-failures/20090810-efeo.html


Fired up 3AW Drive callers
http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/100809_Callers.mp3



Hinch Blog: Passive Drinking
Posted by: Derryn Hinch for 3AW.com.au | 5 August, 2009 - 5:42 PM I have to be a bit careful with the next topic. There’s a danger I’ll be accused of being holier than thou and the equivalent of a born again Christian or reformed smoker.

It concerns alcohol and when I stopped drinking more than three years ago and wrote my book I Beat the Booze – and you can too – I promised myself not to lecture people. Not to sound like a teetotalling twit. Or a prohibitionist.

I’m not anti-booze. Still have it in my house and on my dinner table but I just think people should ‘think before you drink’ and binge drinking is madness.

Alcohol is in the news today –is it ever out of it – because of a devastating new survey on what I call ‘passive drinking’. As in passive smoking. You don’t drink but you are affected by people who do. Husbands, wives, boyfriends, total strangers. In private and in public.

A new report by the Alcohol Education and Rehabilitation Foundation (AER), shows 73% of adult Australians have been negatively affected by someone else’s drinking in the past year.

73%. That’s a helluva figure even in a country with a drinking culture such as ours. And more than a quarter of the complaints were made against a household member, relative, boyfriend/ girlfriend, co-worker.

The survey is called When Others Drink too Much. And if I had read it five years ago I’d have said: ‘Somebody’s been reading my mail’.


Man jailed over racist killing of university researcher
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/blog-with-derryn-hinch/man-jailed-over-racist-killing-of-university-researcher/20090729-e19b.html


Drink driving cops to be sacked
http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/290709_KenLay.wma


Hinch: How I beat the booze
http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/060209_Hinch_Book.wmv


Hinch on the increasing violence{Melbourne is a war zone}
http://www.3aw.com.au/displayPopUpPlayerAction.action?&url=http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/060209_Hinch_Violence.mp3




Police investigate elevator stabbing
Posted Mon Jun 8, 2009 12:36pm AEST
Map: Melbourne 3000
A man has been stabbed with a broken beer bottle in an elevator in Melbourne Central shopping centre early this morning.

Police say a man left a bowling bar with his girlfriend and another friend, and was followed by two men who became involved in a verbal fight with the group outside the elevator.

The two men then pushed the victim into the elevator and stabbed him several times in the chest and stomach with a broken beer bottle.

The pair then fled the scene.

The victim was taken to the Royal Melbourne Hospital with serious injuries.

Police are yet to speak with the man to get descriptions of the pair.




WE MUST ACT NOW TO STOP THE VIOLENCE
COALITION CALLS FOR NEW FIGHT AGAINST MELBOURNE VIOLENCE
Victorian Coalition shadow ministers responsible for police, sentencing and education today
called on the Government to immediately implement a comprehensive response to Melbourne’s
culture of violence through police, schools and the courts.
“A strong broad response that puts more police on the street now, gives teachers and principals
the power to impose discipline in schools and toughens the sentencing regime will send a
message that this kind of violence will not be tolerated any longer,” Shadow Minister for Police
Andrew McIntosh said today.
“These kinds of attacks happen because people think no one will stop them, and if they do get
caught afterwards they will only get a slap on the wrist.
“Victoria has the fewest police per capita, spends the least per capita on police and has the
lowest proportion of operational police in Australia.
“We also know police spend 20 per cent less time on patrol today than they did in 2002, which
means thugs think the chances of getting caught in the act are negligible,” Mr McIntosh said.
According to Victoria Police statistics random violent attacks have almost tripled in the last
decade along with massive increases in attacks causing serious injuries and attacks by gangs of
people.
Random assaults against strangers increased 196 per cent from 1,522 in 1999-2000 to
4,512 in 2007-08
Assaults causing serious injury increased 130 per cent from 1,308 in 1999-2000 to 3,008
in 2007-08
Assaults by 2 or more people increased 68 per cent from 1,299 in 1999-2000 to 2,184 in
2007-08
Source: Victoria Police Crime Statistics
“Labor has failed to impose tough sentences on violent offenders and the majority of offenders
convicted of serious assault get less than two years in jail,” Shadow Attorney-General Robert
Clark said.
“Labor has failed to abolish suspended sentences and failed to impose penalties for violence to
meet community expectations and send a message to thugs that violence will not be tolerated.”
80% of those convicted for intentionally causing serious injury receive a minimum sentence of 2
years or less in prison
Source: Sentencing Advisory Council Snapshot No.39
“Violence, truancy and discipline are significant problems in schools and teachers are telling us it
is getting worse,” Shadow Minister for Education Martin Dixon said.
…/2
-2-
“If we are going to reverse a culture of violence then we need to focus on kids and educate them
about the consequences of their actions, and impose order and discipline.
“We must give teachers back the power to impose discipline by both punishing and supporting
kids at risk of becoming serious violent offenders, but instead Labor plans to take discipline
powers away from principals and teachers,” Mr Dixon said.
Since 2000 the number of violent offenders aged between 10 and 14 has increased by over 80
per cent at an average annual increase of over 10 per cent.
Source: Victoria Police Crime Statistics
According to data available under Freedom of Information there were 1,227 reported assaults in
schools between January 2006 and August 2008, an average of over 12 assaults per week.
Source: Freedom of Information request - Herald Sun, 27 October 2008
School disruption indicators increased substantially between 2007 and 2008 including:
Aggressive behaviour incidents up 33 per cent from 982 to 1,308
Anti-social behaviour incidents up 11 per cent from 960 to 1,067
52 school lockdowns – average of 1 per week
22,750 incident reports between 2006 and 2008 – average of 37 per day
Source: Freedom of Information Request - Sunday Herald Sun, 1 February 2009
“The Coalition believes that as a minimum we need more police on the street in the city and in
the suburbs, plain and simple,” Mr McIntosh said.
“We also need to fix the sentencing regime to send a message to these thugs that when they are
caught they will go away for a long time.
“And we need to get to these kids early and change the culture of violence they are learning in
schools by restoring discipline and giving teachers and principals back the power to control their
classrooms.
“Until we take these basic steps this problem is only going to get worse and that is unacceptable,”
Mr McIntosh said.
Media: Andrew McIntosh 0408 310 443

 

[number1tennisfan]

It's society that's destroying society. Scapegoats and crutches are pretty much the same thing. People need to care less about themselves and more about others.

 

[janvie]

Article from: The Australian

Police say Sudanese a gang threat
VICTORIAN police are being urged to set up a special taskforce to tackle gang violence and lawlessness among young African migrants living in Melbourne's inner-city housing commission estates.

The push - led by rank-and-file police and terrified neighbours - is backed by the state's powerful police union, which claims sections of the African community need to be "properly educated" in Australian values.
"The Sudanese are very difficult to deal with - they come from a lawless background and they really have to be properly educated about Australian society's standards," the Police Association secretary, Senior Sergeant Paul Mullett, told The Australian.

Police in Melbourne's inner north and social workers are demanding resources to help deal with the problem.

"What's actually emerging in Victoria is the establishment of in particular youth gangs and ethnic gangs, and our members just don't have the resourcing support to proactively police these gangs," Sergeant Mullett said.

Police union members who worked around the high-rise public housing blocks in areas such as Flemington and Fitzroy were worried about their safety and becoming more reluctant to work there, he said.

He called for a special taskforce or for departments to "establish taskforces of their own" to tackle gang activity.

Sergeant Mullett warned that more proactive police programs were needed to build better communication with African communities and prevent group violence from escalating to the levels seen in Sydney's Cronulla riots.

"A core function of policing is to connect with the community and to connect with different races," he said.

Victorian Community Council on Crime and Violence member Bob Falconer said yesterday some police and academics had failed to acknowledge the existence of street gangs because they did not want to be seen as singling out the ethnic groups involved.

"Invariably there are ethnic-based issues and often visible minorities involved, and political sensitivity of that seems to frighten them off the issue," said the former Victorian deputy police commissioner. He said while a taskforce would not be a "silver bullet" in overcoming all of the problems, it would improve the cultural and social understanding between the community and the authorities.

Youth worker Les Twentyman said while there were African gangs involved in crime and violence, there were also gangs from other ethnic origins such as Pacific Islanders and Lebanese. He said gangs were an escalating problem that would eventually lead to "no-go zones" in Melbourne if they were not properly addressed by police.

Inspector Scott Mahony, who handles multicultural policing issues in Melbourne's western suburbs, said Victoria Police was working on improving its rapport with the African community.

He said a DVD was being produced "in their own language presented by people in their own community that will explain to them what is the role of police in the situation".

Inspector Mahony said while he did not believe there was a problem with gangs, police needed to improve their understanding of African culture.

Jesuit Social Services chief Julie Edwards said her organisation, which has worked with the African communities in Flemington for more than two years, had seen no evidence such gangs existed.

While boredom and unemployment affected some young Africans in the area, she said, "I haven't seen that translated to violence".




April 16, 2008
Article from: The Australian
SUDANESE refugee Nhial Bangoang fled Melbourne to a quiet Victorian country town for the same reasons he abandoned war-torn Sudan: crime, drugs and alcohol-fuelled gang violence involving young men in his community.

Nhial Banoang with his wife Yomding and children Bangoang 4, Joshua 2 and baby Mal 2months. Picture: Stuart McEvoy
The father of three, who was displaced in southern Sudan during a civil war that killed millions, witnessed youngsters from his community in Melbourne dumping their education to hang out at shopping centres and train stations.

Hundreds of young Sudanese and other African refugees have been arrested following a five-month crackdown by Victoria Police on gang violence and crime in Melbourne's southeast.

Assistant Police Commissioner Paul Evans says the 276 arrests and more than 280 charges against young Africans for crimes including violent assault and possession of firearms reflect a gang culture among some Sudanese youngsters living in urban areas.

"What they do is imitate the American gang culture ... because they identify with the black American gangs," Evans says.

"But they've sort of got to realise that they live in Australia."

Bangoang, like thousands of other Sudanese refugees who are escaping Melbourne's mire for the countryside, is raising his family in a safer environment after migrating to Morwell, east of Victoria, last June.

Morwell is a long way from Maiwut, Bangoang's home town in southern Sudan, but it is reminiscent of his birthplace's idyllic charms before the conflict.

"More Sudanese are moving here," says Bangoang, 26. "The families ask themselves: 'How can we protect young people from smoking and drugs and alcohol?'

"And it's a good idea to move here because your kids can follow their studies ... and stay away from trouble."

The information technology student is among more than 300 Sudanese refugees who have moved from suburban Melbourne to the Latrobe Valley during the past 18 months, with 400 others on waiting lists for housing, according to Gippsland Multicultural Services.

Last month The Australian revealed that Victoria Police was for the first time advising the Immigration Department to settle Sudanese refugees in Victorian country towns, including Shepparton and Mildura, to help them better integrate. More than half of Australia's 30,000-strong Sudanese refugee community lives in Victoria, with the rest mainly spread across NSW, South Australia and Queensland.

Police first advised Immigration last year against settling Sudanese in "dysfunctional areas" such as housing commission flats in Melbourne's north and east, following a spike in crime among young Sudanese men that escalated last September, with the fatal bashing of 19-year-old refugee Liep Gony near Noble Park train station. After the incident, residents publicly complained about Sudanese gangs roaming the streets and a lack of visible police presence.

The exodus by Sudanese refugees to country towns in Victoria is being fast-tracked by community leaders, including Sudanese Community Association vice-president William Abur, encouraging families to consider resettling to gain better housing and lifestyles. "It gives them the opportunity to have a better environment where they can settle well," Abur says.

African Think Tank chairman Berhan Ahmed has long called for Sudanese and other African refugees to be settled in rural areas, saying it would help them integrate, gain employment and prevent youngsters turning to drugs, alcohol and street crime.

"The influence of drugs and alcohol will not be there and it will be much easier for kids and refugee families to adjust in rural areas," he says. Ahmed's research at ATT includes a study of refugees living in rural Victoria and their city counterparts. He says young Africans living in the country are more likely to perform better at school and get work.

Realising that it's difficult to resettle refugees already living in Melbourne, Ahmed urges Victoria's Brumby Government to offer them better housing and jobs in order to encourage them to move.

But Ahmed, also a senior research fellow at the University of Melbourne, warns against forcing African city dwellers to uproot and resettle in the country. "You entice them by giving them opportunities," he says.

Ahmed says country living allows families to integrate at a slower pace while maintaining a close connection with their children. "It gives the family time to spend with their kids. When you compare the city and the country culture within Australia, the country people are a lot more laid back, whereas the city life is fast. And for someone coming from a slow life to a fast life, it's very confusing.

"The country provides time for families to swallow the process of integration, with the local environment and with the people. That is a human social change that does not occur overnight. And for people coming from new cultures, they need time."

Ahmed, who is of Eritrean heritage, says African leaders must make the transition of refugees into Australian society more fluid. "To be honest, the community has to take responsibility first in taking leadership."

Greater Shepparton City Council councillor Chris Hazelman says 47 Sudanese families have migrated to the region, a dramatic increase from one family two years ago. Hazelman says the Sudanese community has settled well, much like other foreign communities, including the Greeks and Italians, who have migrated to Shepparton since the late 1930s. "They feel a lot safer, they feel more secure, there's employment, they're into vocational training and learning English," he says.

Sudanese workers are also favoured by local business because of their dedication and commitment.

"They pick fruit, they prune fruit trees," Hazelman says. "The numbers of Sudanese refugees are still increasing ... and the community in Shepparton has been incredibly generous and receptive in terms of welcoming these people."

Former federal immigration minister Kevin Andrews last year decided to curb the Sudanese refugee intake from 50 per cent of total refugees to 30 per cent amid fears they were not settling and adjusting to Australian life. Andrews was attacked for his comments and accused of playing the race card ahead of the November federal election.

Victoria Police Chief Commissioner Christine Nixon was quick to play down the problem of Sudanese settlement at the time. But senior police officials are understood to have been involved in secret discussions with Immigration about developing better settlement strategies and ensuring more care is taken in approving humanitarian visa applicants. Police recommendations to the Immigration Department include developing better pre-departure programs for humanitarian refugees to educate them about Australian culture, the judicial process, and law-enforcement.

The problem with gang-related violence among Sudanese refugees in Melbourne has persisted. Senior police sources say that gangs involving Sudanese men, including African Power, the Bloods and Crips - inspired by the Los Angeles-based crime groups - have grown in numbers in Melbourne's inner-city suburbs of Collingwood and Carlton.

But in Latrobe Valley, about 120km southeast of Melbourne, there are no signs of the violence, crime or alcohol abuse often linked to the Sudanese community.

Bernard Wiebenga, the finance manager at local abattoir Moe Meat Packers, describes Sudanese workers as "nice blokes" who've integrated smoothly. "Anybody who is prepared to work in the meat industry in Australia has to be a hard worker," he says. "These guys, like all guys who work here, are fairly good. They fit in well into our culture and we fit in well into theirs."

Gippsland Multicultural Services settlement support officer Olivia Hurrell says Sudanese refugees have made the move to Latrobe Valley because of the similarities the country region shares with their homeland. Refugees have also gravitated towards country living because it is cheaper. "We're now getting lots of families who have been recommended to move out here by (relatives) or friends who are here," she says.

Hurrell, who also co-ordinates the volunteer English tutor program at Gipps TAFE in Gippsland, says the focus on education among Sudanese youth is evident, but questions remain about whether students will find employment in the region following graduation.

"We can't really tell until they've finished their studies and begun looking for work." Sudanese students have also expressed interest in returning to their homeland to work, should the conflict end.

But for those who remain, violence and dysfunction were becoming a distant memory. "If you think about the backgrounds they've come from, a lot of them are dealing with trauma and I guess those issues are not easily dealt with," Hurrell says. "So you couldn't say that it's not going to be an issue.

"But in terms of what I've seen, there's none of that.

"Parents just want what's best for their children and their focus is on their children.

"I also haven't seen any signs of violence among the young people in the Sudanese community here. And in terms of gangs and that, certainly not. It's not a culture that is evidenced here in Gippsland."



Watch this, this is Melbourne



http://ozsoapbox.com/melbourne/sudanese-crime-in-melbourne-plummets-to-new-lows-at-sunshine-station/


http://greypath.com/node/29647
Violence in Melbourne
Violence in Melbourne - CornyOne Thu, 13/08/2009 - 18:24
I am so furious I can hardly think straight. Today my 17 year old grandson was attacked, once again, this week (YES 2 attacks in one week), by 3 Lebanese thugs. He and his friend had finished College and were on their way home waiting for the train at the station when they noticed 3 "hooded" males with - wait for it - bandannas across their faces - only their eyes and foreheads showing. They decided to steer well clear of them. NOT good enough. Grandson goes to the kiosk to get a drink and these 3 thugs attack his friend. His friend was king hit and then stabbed. He ran to his friend's defence and was badly beaten in the process but managed to send them "running". Cut a long story short. The police told my grandson that he was not the victim therefore they could do nothing about it unless his friend made a complaint. The friend's father is a policeman so let's hope that the friend HAS made a complaint. I am just so shocked at this brutal nonsense. They pulled a knife on my grandson too, so who knows what might have happened had he NOT defended himself.

I don't know what the answer to this problem is but I do know that it's high time that the "justice system" had a complete reform procedure. These thugs need to be locked up and/or given sentences where they could learn what "hard labour" is all about. I will be pushing my local MP and won't let up!!!!!!!!!

I have been accosted, myself, at the same railway station: "What are ya looking at?" You don't want to know my reply. I will not stand for intimidation from anyone no matter how young or old they are. This world is out of total control.


18 arrests amid Indian protest over Melbourne race violence
KEVIN Rudd has assured New Delhi that Australia isn't racist, as attacks on Indian threaten to disrupt relations.

The violence has made headlines around the world and India has warned it could jeopardise Australia's lucrative education sector, which earns $2 billion annually from Indian students.

There are believed to have been more than 70 assaults during the past year, culminating in a number of stabbings in Melbourne last week.

And the issue threatens to erupt further after claims police were heavy-handed when breaking up a rally blocking a major Melbourne city intersection overnight.



Mr Rudd warned the attacks threatened to “impair” the good relations between Australia and India.
The Rudd government has been keen to build the relationship with India, one of the powerhouse economies of Asia with a growing middle class that offers many trading opportunities for Australia.
During a conversation with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to congratulate him on his second-term win in recent elections, Mr Rudd promised Indians were welcome in Australia.

“I said to Prime Minister Singh the more than 90,000 Indian students in Australia are welcome guests in our country ... and the more than 200,000 Australians of Indian descent are welcome members of the Australian family,” he told parliament.

“I speak on behalf of all Australians when I say that we deplore and condemn these attacks. These are senseless acts of violence.”

The Commonwealth is working with state governments to ensure the perpetrators of the crimes are “brought to justice”, the prime minister said.

He promised Australia embraced its multicultural society.

“Australia is a country of great diversity, harmony and tolerance. We are a multicultural nation and we respect and embrace diversity, diversity which has enriched our nation,” he said.

“The Australian government is committed to developing a stronger, closer relationship with India ... (we are) also committed to the safety of all Australians and all those that visit our nation.”

Opposition Leader Malcolm Turnbull told parliament the attacks were an “absolute disgrace” and “un-Australian”.


'Calls for violence are too strong' for young expats
.




.lFOR a number of years Abdurahman Osman has lamented the creeping fundamentalism of Melbourne's Somali community; the preaching of separatism in the mosques, and the pockets of sympathy for extremist Islamic groups seeking to overthrow the government back home.




Melbourne terror raids
A plot to launch a suicide attack on an Australian Army base by Islamic extremists has been...
Views today: 4Sorry, this video is no longer available.In his regular spot on community radio, the president of the Somali Community of Victoria even warned his fellow expatriates in recent weeks to be "alert" for terrorist activity.

So it is with some chagrin that Mr Osman concedes that while the community is shocked, it wasn't entirely unexpected that Australian Somalis could be implicated in an alleged terrorist plot (as well as Lebanese), or that two of them had allegedly returned to Somalia to train for it.

"Ninety-nine per cent of Somalis in Australia are against terrorist attacks. But I have been saying we must stay on alert. It is a great worry. If al-Shabaab comes to Australia, we are in danger. This is what I believe," Mr Osman told The Australian.

Just two years after an Islamic scholar warned that Somalis were being influenced by radical Lebanese from a hardline Wahhabi group, it is a sentiment shared by several of the community leaders who preside over the 16,000-strong Somali population in Melbourne, where the overwhelming majority of Somali refugees have settled since fleeing a civil war which began in 1991.

A more hardline approach to Islam is taking root among some Somalis in Australia, and violent, extremist groups like al-Shabaab have found sympathy and support.

Even the Somali religious leader, Sheik Isse Musse, yesterday acknowledged that his people could "easily" be recruited to radical Islam.

"This is a fallout from what is happening back home, in Somalia. Radicalisation can happen anywhere in the diaspora," Sheik Musse said.

And clearly, some already have been -- at least ideologically.

Aden Ibrahim, secretary of the Somalia Australian Council of Victoria, says that it is not uncommon for supporters of al-Shabaab to voice their opinions in public.

"They are open. They are saying -- I am with them and I will fight with them if I have to," says Mr Ibrahim, "Some of them make a loud noise and they are empty, but others are genuinely with them, fundraising and whatever."

Mr Ibrahim says this support has its roots in the clan-based civil war.

Somalia's transitional federal government -- aligned to the Daarood clan -- was overthrown in 2004 by the sharia law-supporting Islamic Courts Union, comprising mostly the rival Hawiye clan.

But when the ICU was defeated by the TFG in late 2006 with the help of US-backed forces from Ethiopia, its former members founded an insurgency now known as al-Shabaab.

In other words, al-Shabaab has a historical wellspring of support from the Hawiye clan, many of whom are refugees in Melbourne and living in the Heidelberg area.

"Like any expat community, what happens in Somalia is also happening here, those tensions are reflected," Mr Ibrahim says. "Every clan or group fighting in Somalia has someone here who supports them."

And the power of the internet cannot be underestimated either.

Somalis are able to follow the bloody events back home through websites such as Hiiraan Online.

Sheik Musse, a blind Islamic moderate who arrived in Australia in 1993, told The Australian any young person with a computer was vulnerable to radicalisation.

"People access these websites and they see all kinds of opinion, people who are not educated in Islam. People put their ideas there and the younger people can easily pick up these ideas," he said.

It is also no secret that young men often return home to Somalia, sometimes to fight.

The Australian revealed in 2007 that up to 40 Somalis had gone back to take up arms against the government forces. Among them was Ahmed Ali, who was believed to working as an interpreter for al-Qa'ida before being killed in the fighting.

But what remains unclear is how many do so to participate in jihad against the west, or whether it is out of loyalty to a clan and support for family members swept up in the bloodshed.

It is also increasingly common for Somali elders to dispatch young male refugees home for several months if they have lost their way in Australia and have started turning to a life of crime, drugs or ill-discipline.

"This is what we don't always know, why they go back and who they are with. But to think that someone might want to attack in Australia, this is a very different thing," Mr Ibrahim said.

Like Mr Osman, Mr Ibrahim has also counselled his community in recent weeks that while they can voice their opinions about the conflict in Somalia, they must do so within the law.

"If they bring something like what happened in Jakarta, the price will be large for every Somali here in Australia. We will lose the tolerance of the larger majority of the Australian community," says Mr Ibrahim.

With Somalis often sending money back home to relatives, two years ago the Australian Federal Police also launched a wide-scale investigation into whether some people were in fact funding terrorist organisations. No charges were laid.

But that same year an Islamic scholar from Sydney, Dr Herse Hilole, warned that a terrorist strike in Australia was possible as young Somalis in Melbourne were being influenced by radical Lebanese from a Wahhabi group.

Dr Hilole reportedly said that extremists from Somalia visited in 2006 to gather money and support, and that they were supported by a Somali mosque in North Melbourne.

He also said a group affiliated with the ICU, named al-Ansar, had been closed by Australian intelligence and security agencies and that its members had gone into hiding in the community.

They are words that seem prescient today.

Police are expected to formally brief Somali elders and community leaders at a meeting in Coburg this afternoon, while Mr Osman is organising a rally for the Somali community to express its opposition to terrorism.




http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21941181-661,00.html




Violence in Melbourne.
Violence in Melbourne. - Koko Wed, 22/07/2009 - 17:44


Once upon a time, Melbourne was derided by most of the other Capital cities for being so conservative. It seems like another lifetime now.Sure, back in the 30's and 40's, there was the Mafiosi..standover merchants who ruled the Victoria market, and the odd wharfie bingle. But it was in the main, far removed from the lives of the citizens of Melbourne.
Now, we have gangs of youths, often including girls, attacking innocent people going about their business or just enjoying a night out.
People are afraid to travel on public transport at night, and the elderly have become soft targets for rapes and home invasions.
Every week now, there is a story of another severe bashing, and often with fatal consequences. Respect for authority no longer exists, due in great part to the fact a police 'force' which is now softened down to a police service', which in itself has come about through the insidiousness of political correctness , which in it's turn has made it impossible for parents and teachers or anyone in authority to reprimand or dole out punishment...and that incluces the judiciary who have fallen into lock step with the unwritten laws of political correctness.

I was astonished to hear the Premier of Victoria say " PUTTING a police officer on every street corner would not have prevented the frenzied bashing of a Melbourne teenager,"

And further, put the onus onto the community .
"Mr Brumby called on the community to take a stand against violence and tell their peers it would not be tolerated. "

Yes, Mr Brumby, a youth arrives at the local emergency ward, life hanging in the balance and you want his assailant to get a good talking to from his peers!
The inanity of the do gooders is incomprehensible.
Week after week these these rotten b******s are slapped on the wrist and sent out to repeat and repeat their offences.
I can't believe Melbourne and it's leaders have sunk to such a cavalier attitude as this.

Read the following stories, if you care to.
















From gangland land violence, with the latest daylight shooting of Des Moran to everyday road rage bashings, robberies and drunk and drug fueled knifings attacks, Melbourne is no longer a safe city.The statistics may show a different story but the perception is what counts.

Overseas students of many nationalities are told to avoid Melbourne and older Melburnians themselves, now fear to go out after dark.

http://justmelbourne.com.au/melbourne/80-melbourne-violence-is-escalating-.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ANTI-SEMITIC attacks on Melbourne's Jews have escalated since the latest outbreak of violence in the Middle East.

Jewish organisations, schools and synagogues have been the target of abusive phone calls and letters and Jewish people have been abused on the street since hostilities escalated in Gaza over the past fortnight.
ANTI-SEMITIC attacks on Melbourne's Jews have escalated since the latest outbreak of violence in the Middle East.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/attacks-on-citys-jews-escalating-20090107-7c0g.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
PUTTING a police officer on every street corner would not have prevented the frenzied bashing of a Melbourne teenager, Victorian Premier John Brumby says.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25790962-1243,00.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I was trying to put myself in Premier John Brumby's shoes this morning. Trying to personalise him, which can be hard sometimes. And I thought: Imagine going to bed as premier last night with those ghastly images in your mind of a Melbourne teenager bashed unconscious in a Hungry Jack's. And then waking up this morning to learn that a young Canadian tourist has died after being bashed in a pub.
http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/blog-with-derryn-hinch/mr-brumby-show-us-you-care/200907
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
A cop on every corner won't stop violence, says John Brumby
AAPJuly 16, 2009 03:21pm+-PrintEmailShare
PUTTING a police officer on every street corner would not have prevented the frenzied bashing of a Melbourne teenager, Victorian Premier John Brumby says.
Luke Adams, 19, suffered serious head and facial injuries when he was knocked unconscious in a Prahran fast food outlet on Monday.

A day later, 25-year-old Canadian national Cain Anthony Aguiar died from head injuries he suffered in a similar attack outside a pub.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25790962-1243,00.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


.

 

[HITMAN]

As I've said before bring back the flying squad.

 

[wheeler100]

Agreed, Its not the crutches fault the legs broken.... people are the problem.

Show me a place thats not affected and ruined by selfish people.

 

[ChanL]

Yes but we have limp wristed wimps running the government.
TOUCHY TOUChY, FEELY FEELY, Softly softly two faced self absorbed, self interested people that have nothing in common or nothing to do with you or me or any of us.
We dont know these people and they dont know us, two different worlds.



Trouble comes from bogan hotspots, says Melbourne MayorArticle from: AAPFont size: Decrease Increase Email article: Email Print article: Print Submit comment: Submit comment August 11, 2009 09:55am


City assaults caused by suburban offenders
Mayor says bogans need to be stopped
Calls for New York style policing of hot spots

MELBOURNE Lord Mayor Robert Doyle says police need to follow the blueprint used by former New York counterpart Rudi Giuliani in a bid to curb violence in the city.

Police figures published in The Age newspaper today show almost half of the assaults in the central business district, Docklands and Southbank are by offenders from Melbourne's west and northwestern suburbs.

In the latest incident, a 33-year-old Queensland tourist remains in a coma after he was bashed outside a Melbourne city hotel by a gang of five men early on Sunday.

Mr Doyle said more needed to be done to stop "bogan'' troublemakers in their home suburbs before they entered the city.

"These are people that travel into the city and what they do is, they come in looking for trouble,'' Mr Doyle told ABC Radio today.

"Whether that is through excessive use of alcohol or drugs or violence or a combination of all three, that's what these people are after.

"This is one of the things, when I spoke to Rudi Giuliani, this is one of the things he did in New York.

"First all of all what he did, he targeted the places in the city that were the real hotspots and we certainly do that.

"Then he reached out beyond that and looked at transport corridors as well as the suburbs of origin of the troublemakers.

"By putting some police in that area and by doing some active policing in the areas where they come from, you can actually prevent these problems getting to the CBD in the first place.''

Mr Doyle said he had spoken with police Chief Commissioner Simon Overland about introducing a police "flying squad'' tried by police in other large cities around the world which would target trouble spots.

The Brumby Government announced at the weekend 120 more police would soon patrol Melbourne's streets.

"A flying squad is not a bad idea,'' Mr Doyle said.

"It's not just to react in the city. We'll certainly have the police to do that.

"But if we have got these hotspots that are out in the suburbs, which is where the trouble begins, then we actually need to do something about active policing in those areas as well.''

 

[Russo]

Having been born in a place where wearing the wrong colour can get you killed then emigrating to Melbourne as a teenager
i certainly found that the place had no real every single day knowledge of what it is like to be around people who just don't care about the law and the rights of other people,
yeah sure you had the likes of the painters & dockers , uncle chop chop and lets not for get the infamous Carlton crew but they were very very few compared to some other countries around the world,
i mean (and I'm so sorry to my American brethren) look at the Yanks i wouldn't let my daughter go anywhere near the place without me for fear of what might happen and the same would apply to some of the Baltic/former soviet states.
and lets not even get started about war torn Africa
as Moi said it seems us humans are fated to destroy ourselves and as much as i hate to admit it Australia just seems to be catching up with the rest of the world


Not that i'm pessimistic or anything

Thats just my opinion

 

[shellrae007]

Alcohol and drugs, including all sorts of intoxicants natural or otherwise have been with us since pre-history. It is our social values that are the key in all this.

 

[partygirl96]

I still have my social values so what is the matter with the ones that dont,
Hard line, we have to be hard line, stop it now, stop it in its tracks, it is all good saying that other countries are alot worse but talking about it does nothing, to much talk not enough action zero tolerence is what we need.
I want to walk down the streets at night with my women and son and go to a resturant without the fear that i will be assaulted by some scumbag that has a chip on their shoulder about whatever.
These people are leeches and parasites on our community, they steal, rob, bash, rape and terrorise the good law abiding people that live in this city.
Round them up, take them out to work farms or prisions or whatever works to change their behavioral pattern but do something.

Why sould i sit here in my house constantly fearing for the saftey of my loved ones when i am not with them.

 

[CarolineR]

I couldn't agree more with our right to feel safe walking the streets at night. I hear "back in my day" stories from my dad about how on hot nights him and his brothers used to sleep on the front lawn. If only we could do that today. The point I was making was that the root cause of these problems is far deeper than Substance abuse. Whether its parenting, popular culture, the education system or something in the water so to speak I'm not sure. Its probably a bit of "all of the above"

Evainski

 

[AnniePretty]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25895234-421,00.html



Ice can cause violence, new study shows
Email Print Normal font Large font October 19, 2006 - 9:14AM

Advertisement
AdvertisementThe synthetic drug ice can bring on violent behaviour in users, but is not behind a dramatic rise in assaults in NSW, new research shows.

The report was compiled in response to speculation among police and frontline health professionals that the increasing popularity of the methamphetamine had resulted in a corresponding increase in violent behaviour.

The report, by the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research (BOSCAR) and the National Drug and Alcohol Research Centre (NDARC), says the number of people arrested in NSW for methamphetamine offences rose by 253 per cent between 1995 and 2005.

Over the same 10-year period, the general assault rate in the state jumped from 522 assaults per 100,000 people, to 942 per 100,000.

But the report's lead author Dr Rebecca McKetin said there was no direct causal link between methamphetamines and violence.

It was more a case of chronic users experiencing drug-induced paranoia and reacting to situations in a violent way, she said.

"Our research has found that methamphetamine use can carry the risk of violence," she said.

"It does have the potential to increase violent behaviour in certain situations. This is most likely to occur in chronic users of the drug, particularly if they're experiencing a methamphetamine psychosis."

The report said almost one in 10 Australians have tried methamphetamines, which is sold in varying states of purity under street names including ice, speed, base, pure and meth.

NSW Police Commissioner Ken Moroney has warned that generations of Australians risk being destroyed by ice, which is the purest form of methamphetamine available and .

Ice's popularity has created problems for hospital emergency rooms as well as doctors, who are often faced with young people who become aggressive, agitated or psychotic through its overuse.

Dr McKetin said a wide range of factors contributed to violence among ice users, including, personality, drug withdrawal, alcohol use or the lifestyle associated with illicit drug use.

She said there was a need to improve the capacity of frontline policing and health professionals to manage the aggressive behaviour that can occur with users.

"The best evidence we currently have suggests that the drug's use would only be implicated in a small proportion of assaults," she said.

Dr McKetin said the drug had a favourable image among many young users because it can be smoked and used in social situations.

But she said many users were not aware of the risks the drug carries.

"When you first take the drug, it feels very nice, it's a very, very likeable drug, but it's exactly that quality that leads people to want to use it more," she said.

"But it carries a much higher risk of becoming addictive than when people take ecstasy or smoke cannabis for example."





Violence, drunks, ice monsters - just a night out in Melbourne
December 1, 2008
Going out in the city used to be fun. Now it's a risky proposition.

MELBOURNE is like few other cities. Where else can you walk down an alley, open an unmarked door or climb a dark staircase to find one of the coolest bars? At 25, I am a veteran of the city's nightlife, as I have been on the club scene since high school. When I started exploring Melbourne after dark, I felt safe. People were friendly and I could walk the streets alone at any time, cutting through alleyways to the next venue or a taxi rank. Today, I have a different view.

It's sad to see my city fall into decline. Violence and abuse is now common. On any given weekend between 2am and dawn, the city is littered with drunks - rejected from clubs for being revoltingly intoxicated, or rejected by one of the few available taxis for the same reason.

Now, I would never catch public transport after 11pm for fear of sharing the journey with boozed-up commuters heading for city bars. They buy cheap booze at Dan Murphy's to drink at home or to take as a "traveller" to get a kick start.

But drinking is not all. We have the rise of "ice" in club culture. In just two or three years, it's spread everywhere - and it turns users into monsters. They don't sleep for days, become manically aggressive, paranoid and disillusioned. They attack strangers and friends alike.

Out for a friend's birthday earlier in the year, we had a drink then decided to go dancing. We tried several venues but because of the size of the group, were turned away. Finally, three of us went to a club that used to be a Melbourne institution but had since reopened under new ownership. The room was seedy and the crowd was young, dancing to pumping electro-house music. Most were obviously under the influence of drugs: sweaty and chewing their faces apart as they danced or brooded in dark corners. Soon after we arrived, a fight broke out. Bouncers ejected the offenders. We decided to go. As we left, one of the guys who'd just been kicked out looked at me and yelled "You're a weak c--t!". The bouncer advised me to keep walking. But as we did, the guy and his friend ran ahead to an alleyway and stood in front of us.

One grabbed me and both started threatening me. I tried to escape and pleaded with passers-by to help but everyone walked past. My friends tried to calm the pair but it was as though they were possessed.

I tried to dodge but one hit me. I fell back on the pavement, head exploding with pain. My female friend jumped in but he knocked her down. I helped her up and ran back to ask the bouncers for help but they laughed and turned their backs. They had thrown these guys onto the street knowing they were looking for trouble and had no sympathy. I ran back to my friends and phoned triple zero. I was asked to wait until police arrived but there was no way we could stay near those maniacs. I explained the danger to which they replied they could "send an ambulance if something happens". They weren't joking. I jumped into a cab and got the driver to pick up my friends who were still fighting off the two guys. We got away.

Next day, police did not contact me and the club's owner offered no apology nor took any responsibility for the bouncers' actions. I had bruises and a bump on my head - and I was furious at being attacked for no reason and disappointed at being ignored by the bouncers. They should have seen that the hooligans were kept well away from anyone, as they were obviously under the influence of ice and looking to rip apart the next innocent bystander.

This incident changed my attitude about city venues. There have been many reports of drug or alcohol-fuelled attacks in Melbourne city, some near fatal. Melbourne's famous laneways might be a hub of culture but late at night they are perfect places for sinister behaviour. As a result, I never go anywhere near where this occurred and am always looking out for the guys who assaulted us that night.

As to what sparks the violence, excessive drinking is bad enough but ice and similar drugs make users paranoid and edgy and are more common than most people know. I also think that people lose their tempers when they get kicked out of clubs and can't get home. There are not enough cabs late at night.

There needs to be a stronger police presence. Bouncers need to step up to the mark and start acting like human beings. What we don't need is more security cameras. What help is grainy footage taken from so far away? As for drugs, how do you get rid of ice? There's always going to be some backyard lab producing it as long as there's demand. When the ice epidemic is over the next "it" drug will take over.

People will continue to get drunk and some will take party drugs but we all need to be more aware of our actions and watch out for those who overstep the mark. We need to be careful how we deal with others when we're out - and to be prepared to make a quick escape when things go wrong. No one should try to be a hero.

I miss the days when you would accidentally bump into a stranger and they'd say: "That's OK dude, have a great night!" Now you'd get stabbed for less.

Dean Drieberg, 25, is from Prahran and works in theatre and photography.

When the ice epidemic is over the next "it" drug will take over.

Violence, drunks, ice monsters - just a night out in Melbourne
December 1, 2008
Going out in the city used to be fun. Now it's a risky proposition.

MELBOURNE is like few other cities. Where else can you walk down an alley, open an unmarked door or climb a dark staircase to find one of the coolest bars? At 25, I am a veteran of the city's nightlife, as I have been on the club scene since high school. When I started exploring Melbourne after dark, I felt safe. People were friendly and I could walk the streets alone at any time, cutting through alleyways to the next venue or a taxi rank. Today, I have a different view.

It's sad to see my city fall into decline. Violence and abuse is now common. On any given weekend between 2am and dawn, the city is littered with drunks - rejected from clubs for being revoltingly intoxicated, or rejected by one of the few available taxis for the same reason.

Now, I would never catch public transport after 11pm for fear of sharing the journey with boozed-up commuters heading for city bars. They buy cheap booze at Dan Murphy's to drink at home or to take as a "traveller" to get a kick start.

But drinking is not all. We have the rise of "ice" in club culture. In just two or three years, it's spread everywhere - and it turns users into monsters. They don't sleep for days, become manically aggressive, paranoid and disillusioned. They attack strangers and friends alike.

Out for a friend's birthday earlier in the year, we had a drink then decided to go dancing. We tried several venues but because of the size of the group, were turned away. Finally, three of us went to a club that used to be a Melbourne institution but had since reopened under new ownership. The room was seedy and the crowd was young, dancing to pumping electro-house music. Most were obviously under the influence of drugs: sweaty and chewing their faces apart as they danced or brooded in dark corners. Soon after we arrived, a fight broke out. Bouncers ejected the offenders. We decided to go. As we left, one of the guys who'd just been kicked out looked at me and yelled "You're a weak c--t!". The bouncer advised me to keep walking. But as we did, the guy and his friend ran ahead to an alleyway and stood in front of us.

One grabbed me and both started threatening me. I tried to escape and pleaded with passers-by to help but everyone walked past. My friends tried to calm the pair but it was as though they were possessed.

I tried to dodge but one hit me. I fell back on the pavement, head exploding with pain. My female friend jumped in but he knocked her down. I helped her up and ran back to ask the bouncers for help but they laughed and turned their backs. They had thrown these guys onto the street knowing they were looking for trouble and had no sympathy. I ran back to my friends and phoned triple zero. I was asked to wait until police arrived but there was no way we could stay near those maniacs. I explained the danger to which they replied they could "send an ambulance if something happens". They weren't joking. I jumped into a cab and got the driver to pick up my friends who were still fighting off the two guys. We got away.

Next day, police did not contact me and the club's owner offered no apology nor took any responsibility for the bouncers' actions. I had bruises and a bump on my head - and I was furious at being attacked for no reason and disappointed at being ignored by the bouncers. They should have seen that the hooligans were kept well away from anyone, as they were obviously under the influence of ice and looking to rip apart the next innocent bystander.

This incident changed my attitude about city venues. There have been many reports of drug or alcohol-fuelled attacks in Melbourne city, some near fatal. Melbourne's famous laneways might be a hub of culture but late at night they are perfect places for sinister behaviour. As a result, I never go anywhere near where this occurred and am always looking out for the guys who assaulted us that night.

As to what sparks the violence, excessive drinking is bad enough but ice and similar drugs make users paranoid and edgy and are more common than most people know. I also think that people lose their tempers when they get kicked out of clubs and can't get home. There are not enough cabs late at night.

There needs to be a stronger police presence. Bouncers need to step up to the mark and start acting like human beings. What we don't need is more security cameras. What help is grainy footage taken from so far away? As for drugs, how do you get rid of ice? There's always going to be some backyard lab producing it as long as there's demand. When the ice epidemic is over the next "it" drug will take over.

People will continue to get drunk and some will take party drugs but we all need to be more aware of our actions and watch out for those who overstep the mark. We need to be careful how we deal with others when we're out - and to be prepared to make a quick escape when things go wrong. No one should try to be a hero.

I miss the days when you would accidentally bump into a stranger and they'd say: "That's OK dude, have a great night!" Now you'd get stabbed for less.

Dean Drieberg, 25, is from Prahran and works in theatre and photography.

When the ice epidemic is over the next "it" drug will take over.





http://www.openfamily.com.au/documents/ICE%2020%20times%20worse%20than%20heroin.pdf



http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/paranoia-violence-and-death-a-mounting-toll/2007/07/08/1183833344553.html

 

[texelgirl2]

Britain did that very thing once. And we named that prison 'Australia'.

The Buddhist view (or at least the view of hardline Buddhists) is that one should never drink Alcohol, because by doing so you are funding the very system that causes the social degradation you have described. Something to think about next time you are offered a beer at a barbie.

 

[FreddieMercury]

2 guesses what the solution is....
Unfortunately, The disgust we all felt watching will lead society straight to the chip.. Safety concepts are numerous. Tracked in all public places etc, half these assaults may not have happened if they new its instant ID and arrest etc...


There is no solution, we can only send out positive vibes and wish our children luck....

 

[helpmeee]

First part was a joke (or was it?)

Second part was entirely relevant. You complain about alcohol destroying society but I imagine that you, as an Australian chap, enjoy the occasional beer. My point (or rather, the point made by certain Buddhist teachers) is that by buying that occasional beer, you are buying into a system of abuse. If the casual drinkers stopped drinking, there would not be the necessary demand to justify keeping pubs/clubs/breweries in business and the few who abuse it would no longer have easy access to it.

 

[LucyD]

You are still being a smart ass, for a start all the people that the English sent to Australia for crimes like stealing a loaf of bread came from where?
Secondly i am not talking about Buddisim or or the occasional beer and you know what i mean so stop fishing.

 

[goch121]

I'm not sure how that's relevant to my joke, but whatever.

Buddhism was the source of the wisdom, not the subject itself.

From The Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh (a much wiser man than either of us)

'There are people who drink alcohol and get drunk, who destroy their bodies, their families, their society. They should refrain from drinking. But you who have been having a glass of wine every week during the last thirty years without doing any harm to yourself, why should you stop that? What is the use of practicing this precept if drinking alcohol does not harm you or other people? Although you have not harmed yourself during the last thirty years by drinking just one or two glasses of wine every week, the fact is that it may have an effect on your children, your grandchildren, and your society. We only need to look deeply in order to see it. You are practicing not for yourself alone, but for everyone. Your children might have a propensity for alcoholism and, seeing you drinking wine every week, one of them may become alcoholic in the future. If you abandon your two glasses of wine, it is to show your children, your friends, and your society that your life is not only for yourself. Your life is for your ancestors, future generations, and also your society. To stop drinking two glasses of wine every week is a very deep practice, even if it has not brought you any harm. That is the insight of a bodhisattva who knows that everything she does is done for all her ancestors and future generations. The emptiness of transmission is the basis of the Fifth Precept. The use of drugs by so many young people should also be stopped with the same kind of insight.'

 

[xUsx]

Why pick on alcohol and drugs.. I could name at least 10 other things that are also destroying peoples lives.

Alcohol and other drugs have always been used to keep people in their place, whether it was ancient egypt, the soviet union or modern Britain. Some of you may remember that during the height of economic unrest and unemployment Thatcher changed the pub opening hours so that the poor could be kept off the streets?

It's the same with the drug scene today, I've had people tell me that "the rave scene is like a threat to power maaaan..." but these people are idiots. The state loves the youth rotting their god given brains with chemicals in the woods.
It's common knowledge amongst the higher tier dealers that if it werent for the complicity of MI6 the coke trade would be non-existant.

It's social engineering in action, create a generation of obsessed with sensation and frivolity over anything of moral or intellectual substance. It's not drugs per se destroying society, it's those at the top changing society, this is their revolution and yes mindless abandon and the destruction of moral values is a big part of it. Destroy the family, destroy morality and therefore destroy resistance. Not a hard concept to get your head around and anyone with a functioning brain can see it has happened.

 

[sweet_temptation]

Are you telling me what i do or asking me? This is not about you or me, dont be so self absorbed.

 

[NathanM]

Dhalsim-On is the MAP equivalent of Stephen Colbert - he's too damned extreme to actually be serious. Or is he?

 

[Sorge]

Who? What? When? Where? Why?

I used you as an example (I think the assumption that a white male over the age of 21 in a country like Australia will occassionally consume alcohol is a reasonable one), since you were the one complaining that my point was not germane to the discussion.

Please stop trying to pick a fight with me, I'm in far too good a mood to be baited today. Tomorrow perhaps.