Zimmerman Martin Case

[Relicaaaatt]

You have a point: a peaceful and dignified protest always carries far more moral weight than a riot. But I think that many people's initial reaction to the verdict is one of complete disgust and anger, and I would imagine that many people are thinking "Here we go again!"

People protested peacefully back in the sixties and got beaten for it, but at least things seemed to be changing for the better, eventually. But if fifty years later you still get the feeling that US justice is still racially-biased then you might well feel more like throwing a brick than marching around with a placard. I'm not saying that it's right, but it's understandable.

 

[jamesaguilera93]

Yo that link ain't working for me.

 

[Peanuts42]

So is the post below an admittance of your racism?



Your comments show that you think minorities act like children or at least you are willing to portray their actions as such. Do you know the historical precedent of such rhetoric? Why do you think all minorities feel that white people(or Zimmerman in this case) are crackers? Seems like an overly simplistic, one might even say childish assumption. So now everyone who rioted was African-American or another minority? No, outrage was expressed by people of all races and walks of life.

So hear you are talking about intelligence while demonstrating a pronounced lack of it, sensitivity, and obviously racially determined bias for your efforts. Great way to further conversation and reconciliation.

 

[firered212]

It might have been brought up earlier in the thread (I don't have the patience to go back through several pages of nonsense to check), but this is why people think race is a factor in these kind of trials - http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/

White (hispanic) shoots and kills an unarmed black teenager - acquittal.
Black woman fires warning shots to ward off an attack by abusive husband - 20 years in jail.

 

[pnut]

From what I've gathered, that is not what she did. She left to go get her gun, then came back and fired a warning shot at her husband (and risked hitting her kids in the process). That doesn't sound like self-defence to me.

 

[tomaxamot23]

From http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/17/stand-your-ground-marissa-alexander

"The case dates from 1 August 2010, when Alexander and Gray got into a fight at their home after he found text messages to Alexander's ex-husband on her phone.

At some point during the altercation, Alexander went into the garage. She claims she could not flee because the garage door was not working and she did not have the keys to her car. Alexander grabbed her handgun from inside the glove compartment and went back into the house. She fired a single shot at Gray, who was standing in the living room with his sons, ages nine and 13. The shot missed.

Alexander's family claims she was an experienced shooter and the trajectory of the bullet proves she was not aiming to kill or injure anyone. But Corey disputed these claims, with photographs showing bullet holes in walls at near "adult-height".


State attorney Angela Corey Photograph: Win Mcnamee/Getty Images
Corey also argued that stand-your-ground did not apply because Alexander could have fled the scene, although in 1999 the Florida supreme court ruled that a woman attacked by her husband in the home they share has no duty to flee.

In a November 2010 deposition, Gray admitted he had told Alexander that "if she ever cheated on me I would kill her" and, during the tussle, said: "If I can't have you, nobody can." He said that he was he "was going towards her" when Alexander fired a shot that went "high" and to his right. Gray said the gun was not pointed at him: "She just didn't want me to put my hands on her anymore, so she did what she feel like she have to do to make sure she wouldn't get hurt.""


So.

The 'victim' admits to being violent, he admits to threatening to kill her, he concedes that she was likely afraid of being attacked, he was uninjured.

Oh, but she's black and therefore she has to go to jail for 20 years for trying to protect herself.

 

[cemlkd]

Did you read the case she fired a shot in anger because she was pissed at the crappy ex-husband.
It went through the wall and angled up. A child was also in the room the bullet went through.
I would say in this case 20 years is a bit long and that could be changed but this is not a case of self-defense.

And yes you’re certainly right no white male would ever be sent to jail for that long for doing something just like that.





http://www.theledger.com/article/20090619/NEWS/906195060

 

[Smithster]

I think the self defence argument in the Alexander case is a lot stronger, especially given the husbands deposition where he states that he was moving towards her, that the gun wasn't pointed at him and that he had previously threatened to kill her.

That's a lot more evidence for a stand your ground offence than Zimmerman had. Yet he was acquitted, and she gets 20 years in jail.

 

[Amune]

You mean like these peaceful protests?

 

[NickWillis]

I do find a certain comic irony in the gun-nuts schizophrenic world view:

"We need a heavilly armed civilain population, so that we can go to war against tyrannical and unrepresentative government... Hey, those blacks are acting up, call the national guard!"

 

[50centrocks]

"White hispanic"????? Really? is this a new designation for a racial sect? Ok what if Zimmermans Mom happened to be Black? Would we still be treating this as racially motivated acquittal? Would he then be considered "White black"? That's just too much...

 

[ZachT]

Hmmm...

"shot a revolver inside his house to scare his daughter's 17-year-old boyfriend"

vs.

A woman being beaten and threatened with murder by her husband

 

[CHAD88]

What are you on about?

There are three core races. White, Black and Asian. Since people keep on harping on about how he is Hispanic (which isn't a race), I thought I'd add it in parentheses.

 

[SyR1nGmaZt3rV]

Did you know that Alexander has a conviction for domestic abuse? Hard to know what to make of a person convicted of domestic abuse going into a house with a handgun when she showed up unannounced at her ex's house and was surprised to find him there.

There are similar case in Florida where a white male fired a warning shot above his daughters boyfriend and was similarly charged and given a 20 year sentence though no one was hurt..

In both the Alexander case and the one with the white male a 3 year plea bargain was offered and was rejected by the defence as they thought they could get off.

Florida has a 10,20 life law that was put in to stop guns being used in crimes. Show a gun during the commission of a felony and you get 10 years , fire it and it goes to 20, hit someone and it becomes 25-life. All these sentences are mandatory and out of the hands of the judge.

If you leave the house and come back in with a gun when you could have walked away then self-defence cannot be claimed. You have committed a crime of discharging a firearm at the very least (and much worse depending on the circumstances).

These cases on the internet/news media often only tell half the story.

 

[TheSmartOne]

TBF it's more complicated than that. The boyfriend allegedly was beating the daughter and attacked the father who fired a shot into the wall to scare him. The prosecutor argued that the sight of the gun alone would have been enough.

But the Alexander case is disgusting, since it sounds like exactly the kind of situation that laws like SYG were designed for. I don't believe (for a second) she would have been prosecuted if she was white.

 

[Quasar]

Races are sects now?

Anyway, blame CNN, they started calling him "white Hispanic".

Also, Hispanic isn't a "race".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/12/cnn-white-hispanic_n_3588744.html

"But it’s really not that hard. Latinos are a multi-racial ethnicity. What we have in common is Latin American or Hispanic birth or heritage. We can be white, black, mestizo, mulato, or indigenous and still count as Latino. In fact, people of Middle Eastern or Asian descent can count as Latino if they set down roots in the region! (We submit Shakira and Alberto Fujimori as exhibits A and B.) Confusing? It shouldn’t be. Just remember the “of Latin American or Hispanic birth or heritage” part.

The term “white Hispanic” refers to someone who is phenotypically white (of European blood), but is of Latin American or heritage. There’s lots of people who fit the description out there. Take, for example, Ted Cruz, who is super white, but Latino nonetheless:

Zimmerman is probably not one of them. Race is not a science. In fact, there’s no genetic foundation for it at all. It’s a social convention.

But within the context of that social convention, white refers to skin color. Zimmerman, like most Latinos, is likely of racially mixed heritage -- what in most Latin American countries would be described as “mestizo.” "

 

[AlexisInfectious®]

And you're opinion on the victim in the Alexander case swearing under oath that she had cause to fear for her life?

How can Zimmerman claim self defence with no evidence, but Alexander cant when the person she claimed self defence against supported her claim under oath? It's so stupid, it's so...Florida.

 

[johncenaluvrinpink_02]

We aren't in disagreement in many ways but(and I am sooo lost with these 17+ pages of thread) she needn't have gotten herself in that position if she had not shown up unannounced, had brought a chaperone? police officer? someone with her, arranged to get her clothes without sneaking in etc.. she put herself in this position by her actions. Her texts to her first husband suggesting that the baby she had 9 days earlier might not have been Gray's(infidelity issues)also wound Gray up pretty badly and inflamed the situation. She could have handled it a lot better than to go and get a gun.

Considering she had conviction for domestic abuse I was surprised to see that she had a revolver with her and was allowed to carry it.

Stand your ground only counts if she had no way to retreat... she retreated. got a weapon and came back.. not exactly the same. It's all about what they did , at least what was visible/recordable for perusal later.

Flawridah :' P

Jeb Bush :' S

What can I say!

LFD

 

[captainwar01]

So now we're saying that domestic violence victims are to blame for their abuse? Listen to yourself!

She says she couldn't retreat because the garage was locked and she didn't have her car keys. Did the prosecution prove otherwise? No. Was she required to retreat under the law? No.

 

[JayZ]

That's not really accurate.

There are the three skeletal types of Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Negroid (who's names haven't caught up with social convention yet), but that's rather outdated.

Where do indigenous South Americans fit into white/black/asian?

Are Indians and North Africans white? They're certainly not black.

This is about social divisions, not genetic ones.