Zimmerman Martin Case

[UnaBlogger]

Just out of interest, if somebody started following you in thier car and then on foot, what would you do? (continue to run away or confront them?)

If you confronted them and a fight started, would you feel it fair if that person then took out a gun and murdered you?

 

[mtnckyr10]

He was a 17 year old dude, with all that implies. I took stupid 'tough' pictures flexing in the mirror at that age. I thought I was hardcore man. Still would have been paste on the street if someone with a year of offtopic training came at me.



Sorry man, 5-6 months of a good combat sport and you should be able to tear someone up without any training. This is pretty much an ideal scenario for someone training offtopic. One dude, without weapons, without training and at a weight disadvantage. I've heard two figures for the length of time Zimmerman trained and they were "over a year" and "18 months." That amount of time would make up for the amount of fights a teenager had, I don't care how thug you think Martin looked.

Speaking personally, the character assassination that folks leveraged against Martin was one of the most troubling aspects of the case to me. He seemed like a normal, run of the mill 17 year old to me.

 

[MarianoG]

Well if they did that then I would be dead and what was fair would then come to me but understanding how you meant it... no of course I wouldn't feel it fair. Would I run? No I wouldn't likely run. I would just calmly ask the guy how he was doing and if there was something wrong or any issue.

Honestly, If I knew I had done nothing wrong, then I would have no reason to run.

 

[EternalLife]

I do wonder in this neigborhood they were in if there had been a lot of buglaries or other crimes that had recently been committed though?

 

[AlexisInfectious®]

My issue with all this is that from what I gather, the jury had little choice with the verdict they gave. The law needs to be changed so that one cannot claim self defence if they themselves instigated and/or provoked the encounter. All the kid did wrong was win a fight.

Once Z got the gun out, you cannot blame the kid for trying to get it off him. A natural reaction. Sadly doing that got him killed.

 

[EvilChef]

I haven't actually listened to it. I tried to follow the trial as little possible and I'm pissed it was so heavily covered given that the US is ignoring coverage on the largest domestic spying scandal in the history of our government and the world. Or ya know, they could cover the impending second US recession that is predicted to be devastatingly larger than the first, and I'm sure will cascade into another European financial collapse. I felt the trial was basically a magic show to distract stupid people.



Um, I'd pretend not to notice the surveillance, document the plate number and model of his vehicle, memorize the tail's features/mannerisms, practice CS until I lost said tail, leading it away from my home, and then attempt to double-back and follow the tail to it's source if it were still around to verify if it were part of a larger surveillance element.

 

[kswavely08]

Just like Trayvon

 

[Zinogikudu]

I am not question if he was a wannabe thug... that part is obvious, but is he a true thug in the sense of always being in trouble, getting into fights, issues with the law... if he was 17 they don't have to bring out his juvenille record do they?

The weight thing needs to be dropped, there is no way to tell if a guy with a big hoodie and I am guessing baggy jeans on weighs 150 or 180 at night and seeing him from behind.

I am not excusing Zimmerman or if he was in the wrong or the right. Like I said, I believe both of the were wrong and evidence I have read shows that both were indeed at fault.

 

[VanitaM]

What I find interesting is that despite the fact the Zimmerman had a record for assaulting a police officer and (alleged) domestic violence against a spouse, this was dismissed as 'run of the mill' by the judge when considering bail.

On the flip side, Martin was painted as a thug, when it could have been said there was similar evidence to say the same of zimmerman.

 

[QandA]

Again, I haven't been following it closely enough. Did he run before or after he was asked to stop or whatever Zimmerman said to him?

 

[crosbie]

That's fine... but keep in mind that evidence was supposedly withheld, this according Zimmerman's attorneys last night.

 

[jonnystakes]

Sounds like getting away with murder to me.

 

[hfsrduiurfdlrejbvsfd]

When compared to the recent Marissa Alexander, case, also in florida, where she fired a warning shot, didnt hit her abusive partner, and got an automatic 20 year jail term, something seems to be very wrong in florida.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/19/marissa-alexander-gets-20_n_1530035.html

http://samuel-warde.com/2013/06/stand-your-ground-black-woman-fires-sho-gets-20-years-white-man-kills-and-goes-free/


''In light of the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case, let’s take a look at how the justice system has been working for Florida over the past few years:

If you’re an older white man and you catch your wife cheating on you with another man, you get to kill him, then go free.

If you’re a black woman and you fire a warning shot to scare off a physically abusive husband who’s aggressively coming at you, after saying, “If I can’t have you, no one will,” then you get to go to prison for 20 years.

There are so many things wrong here I’m not sure where to begin, but racism, sexism, and bigotry jump right out there to the top of the list. And I think it’s fair to say, given these examples, the laws work for some, but not others…

This past March, Ralph Wald, 70, got up in the middle of the night, saw his wife Johanna Lynn Flores, 41, in the living room, the arms of his neighbor, Walter Conley, 32. Wald grabbed his gun and shot Conley in the back, three times, killing him. Ward later claimed he thought Conley, a known lover of his wife’s, was raping her. He used the the Stand Your Ground law to bypass justice. On May 30, Ralph Wald walked out of court a free man.


It would seem nothing good could come from the above case, but something did. The Ward case brought renewed attention to one of most racist out-of-judicial-whack-job cases in Florida courts.

Three years ago, 31-year old mother of three, Marissa Alexander, acted in self-defense, hurting no one, and received a 20-year conviction. Within 12 minutes, the jury found her guilty of aggravated assault, even though her estranged abusive husband admitted in his deposition, she had every right to do what she did.''

 

[swenson024]

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/08/just-physically-soft-zimmermans-offtopic-instructor-says-he-was-a-lousy-fighter/

''SANFORD, Fla. – The owner of the mixed-martial arts gym where George Zimmerman worked out testified Monday that Zimmerman’s fighting skills registered at between a “1” and “1.5” on a ten point scale.

Adam Pollack, owner of Kokopelli’s Gym, called Zimmerman “nonathletic” and “just physically soft.”

Pollack said that Zimmerman began working out in October 2010 in order to lose weight and get in shape. Pollack said that Zimmerman trained “two to three days at most,” attending sessions between work and school.

He said Zimmerman was “a beginner” and not competent in grappling — a tactic used in mixed-martial arts.

Pollack said that Zimmerman was “very diligent” and “very coachable” but didn’t have the strength or skill to be successful in the sport.

Pollack said that Zimmerman was grossly obese when he began training. “That was the main focus of why he was there,” he said, adding “he was doing very well with that.”

Pollack also said that Zimmerman began boxing training but that he never progressed past shadow boxing. “He didn’t know how to really effectively punch.”

Zimmerman claims that he was being beaten up by Trayvon Martin before shooting him in the chest. A witness to the altercation between Zimmerman and Martin previously testified that they saw a person later identified as Trayvon Martin on top of Zimmerman, attacking him “ground and pound” style.

''

 

[Irishguy]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/criminal-justice/is-there-racial-bias-in-stand-your-ground-laws/

I think this was an interesting take on the SYG laws as well. Nothing conclusive, but look like fairly damning statistics.



Yeah, I read that article. I'm picturing the most awkward out of shape dude I know at one of the gyms I trained at, and it's true, he never really made much progress. I imagine that he's fairly similar to Zimmerman in that regard. I'd still put money on him and his training over some random teenager, but hey, that's just my take.

Edit: Also, yo, can you imagine an offtopic teacher saying he was a good fighter? I think it would be really bad for business. "Zimmerman? One of our best fighters. Still managed to get beat up by a skinny teenager, but man can that guy fight in the ring!"

 

[jerryz]

Ok putting aside the alleged criminal records (on both parties) do you agree that that Zimmerman took it upon himself (despite being told not to by the police) to stalk Martin.

He had absolutely no reason to follow this guy, he was not in danger and could have simply left it in the hands of the police.

But he didnt, he actively followed martin (stalked would be the right word in this case, as it was stalked I think we can agree?)

And then shot him.

So to keep things simple, Martin was stalked by a person he didn't know (both in a car and on foot) and then shot. And yet some claim Zimmerman is the 'good guy'.

How can this possibly be right?

If I was stalked by somebody like that, I would be well within my right to attack them in self defence (somthing zimmerman cannot claim the same right too)

We dont know who instigated the fight, but even if Martin did, he would have been well within his right to do so, dont you think? (If Zimmerman was being stalked in the same way, and roles were reversed and he shot Martin for stalking him thinking him a mugger)

It seems to me everything is wrong in this case, a person was being chased/followed by a stranger, the stranger kills them and the stranger gets off scott free. How is this right?

(I really want to understand how this can possibly be right).

 

[roverpavlova]

Of course it's not "right" Cptequinox. How could it be? Was it legal is the question, and yes, I suspect (again, I barely followed this trial) that Zimmerman's actions were technically legal. Zimmerman is clearly an under-trained idiot and is the last guy I'd want on my neighborhood watch.

What I believe probably happened is Zimmerman followed a kid who unfortunately matched the description of another person who recently burglarized the same neighborhood. Yes, he ignored the dispatcher suggestion not to follow the kid. The dispatcher would make that same suggestion if it was a man wielding a bloody knife walking towards school children though. I do not believe his decision to ignore the dispatcher and follow was unlawful. Because he's a twit who isn't trained to surveil someone, he probably makes it quite obvious he is following the kid, probably follows too close and think he's remained unobserved. Martin probably quickly escalated things to a physical conflict once he felt sufficiently threatened being followed too long. Once Zimmerman was beaten badly enough, he draws the gun and tries scare Martin into backing off, but Martin instead tries to wrestle the gun from him. At that point, calling it "fearing for your life" isn't so improbable.

The question of the entire affair rested on what precisely happened in the seconds leading up to Martin dominating Zimmerman in violence. If Martin immediately escalated to violence once he stopped walking away from Zimmerman, as I believe he probably did, then legally I don't feel Zimmerman is at fault. "Legally at fault" being the operative phrase here. Zimmerman could have been mentally unstable but not dangerous, he could have been an ununiformed federal employee, etc.

I think it's probably just an unfortunate situation of a moron following a kid he had no intention of harming while he waited for the police to arrive, and the kid overreacting. I think everyone lost in that situation, including Florida given public perception now.

 

[baxter_rooroo]

I hadn't heard of this case before today and I just finished the wiki article on the incident. Leqving the legality of the shooting to one side, I don't understand how this became a race crime issue? Honestly reading the wiki I don't see why it was much of an issue full stop. But was it the way it was reported? Without trying to stereotype too much, the US seems to have an obsession with race and I can't really shake the feeling a black dude got shot, there was some question about the stand your ground laws in florida, and because it was a young black guy who died it suddenly got painted as a racial shooting. I'm happy to accept I'm wrong about that from guys with more expoaure to this case but thats the impression I've got so.far

 

[Meow2The3rd]

As far as I know shooting someone in the back isn't legal. Perhaps if someone is in your home you could claim you thought something was going on that you actually knew wasn't, but that's another issue. The woman being convicted for firing a warning shot? That's it? There's no other motive or anything to that case? Were they perhaps wondering if her warning shot could have hit someone else? Seems like a pretty stupid case to convict someone so quickly..

The problem is in a stand your ground state, the law needs to be laid out flat, here is what you can do, here is what you can not.

 

[AnnoynomousA2]

I think it was more of a political racial thing. You got Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson who clearly need to read the Bible many times over to understand that being on the side of one race or another is not a Godly thing, but for people to just be people. All of that aside though I think race was brought into it because someone on here earlier said Zimmerman had said something about these masked profanitys are always getting away? Don't quote me on that. While Martin was heard calling Zimmerman some "crazy another masked profanity cracker", also don't quote me on that... both I think are close though. I guess they are both racist and it cancels each other out!