U.S. Presidential election 2012

Your joking, right? President Obama is anything but moderate, now I know to those in Europe it seems he's not left enough. In the US the government running every aspect of our lives is a new thing. Americans are suppose to govern ourselves locally and through the states. Private industry is suppose to facilitate the markets and the economy. The federal government purpose is to protect the liberties of the citizens by upholding the constitution and protection from enemies foreign and domestic.

However the political machine has diluted patriotism to the point of allowing partisan ideology to divide the nation and instead of working together for peace and prosperity it has become a power struggle for career politicians to fleece the taxpayers and reward political contributors. This is not the nation that I grew up in or was told was the design of the American system of government.

Until we find politicians who put country before profits we will never be again the America that was founded 230+ years ago.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned, the people had better prepare themselves for their governments to fail them as the global debt rises to the point of no return. In other words, get your own house in order and demand fiscal responsibility from your governments. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Americas problems will not be solved by this election, however I truly believe there is hope on the horizon as the policies as of late continue to fail, the American people will rally around common sense and patriotism. Leaders will emerge to lead the country instead of leeching the citizenry for nothing more than there own gains.
 
But what are the government supposed to do when the enemies threatening its citizens are private industry?

The US has proven that blind capitalism doesn't work just like the USSR proved that communism doesn't work.

And honestly, anyone who doesn't think Obama has been a moderate president is blind to the political reality.

This is hilarious - if there is one thing that can be said about US politics is that the only thing US citizens rally around, is their political party of choice. You wont get real change until you abandon the two party system.
 
Obewan's a right winger - he would say those things.

actually he isnt faar left or far right. He's moderate - more left than a lot of americans believe in, or are used to, perhaps. But to me as a canadian - he's pretty moderate.
 
Well HH, there is good and bad in every system, you reap what you sow. If policies reward bad behavior then that's going to be the status quo, right? The government needs to create policies that encourage self reliance in business and citizenship. In other words reward those who act responsibly and inhibit those who take advantage of their positions.

I'm not blind about political reality, you just have no idea of my position or philosophy. President Obama may not be left enough for you or other far left zealots, but his apparent lack of ability to compromise, or his total lack of respect for the constitution, makes a strong statement about his partisanship.

As far as the two party system I don't think it matters what affiliation a career politician is associated, the fact remains in refection of the former and current administrations that the Federal Government is hell bent on ruling the population and limiting the liberties that Americans were promised.



Your correct in both statements Blade, that doesn't make me a bad Jedi does it?
 
I thought you wanted the government to keep right out of things? Just protect the constitution and let business take care of business?
 
^^ Quoted for the truth. ^^

There is no substantive difference between the Republican Party and the Democrat Party, nor between Conservatives and Liberals. They do the same things, but through different laws. It's like a TKD kick versus a muay thai kick, or something. The details differ but both hurt! The real power is in the Senate, but the front-man is President. Was George W. a Conservative? He reduced personal freedoms by drastically increasing the scope and size and cost of the federal government, and it was all intentional. I consider Obama a Liberal, and he's working on the same goals on purpose. Same result through different legislation. The President never acts without his Party, so blame really goes to the twin Parties.

Lite beer or regular beer? Wine or whiskey? It doesn't make a difference.
 
Nah.

You can be the biggest capitalist I've ever seen, and that will probably mean you will suck in politics because total capitalism won't work, but that don't mean you can't be good as a person, just you. x
 
This blog, written by Prof Keith Poole (University of Georgia) has a multi-part series on political polarisation in the US, but this entry in particular shows that as bad as they want to make Obama seem like some far left radical, he is actually the most right-wing Democratic president in modern times.

There are other parts to that series of posts that break down the House and Senate, but the gist of it is this: the Democrats have stood still, the Republicans are moving to the right, fast.
 
I would flip Obama and Clinton, but more importantly, the world is not one dimensional (a line from the left side to the right side). Any analysis with only a left/right dichotomy is incomplete.
 
On a fiscal spectrum it says enough.

I think if you added a Libertarian/Authoritarian axis you'd see that both parties are basically the same.
 
Fiscally, the two Parties are the same in that they both want to increase federal spending. They just bicker over the precise dollar amounts and the particular programs. It'd a debate over where to spend money, not whether to spend money. Regardless of who wins a particular debate, federal money gets spent and the national debt goes up.

On the authoritarian axis it's the same thing again. They both want more federal power. They're fighting over which federal office or program to empower. The end result is that the federal government gets bigger in some way.
 
How far left do you need to be to be a far left zealot, in your opinion?

I see a far left zealot as being a sort of Soviet or Cuban style communist, where all property is owned by the state and all employment is by the state.

You seem to see far left zealotry and being a sort of European style benign socialism, where people pay tax at a rate proportionate to their earnings and in return the state provides a safety net in case of sickness, unemployment or disability.
 
The government should protect the people it doesn't need to protect the constitution it needs to follow it. As HH pointed out pure capitalism is not realistic, strategic regulation is needed to protect the economy, consumers, and labor. A free market society is preferred in general, however, limited safety nets must be in place. Never ending entitlements is a sure way to suppress an economy and the will to produce. An unproductive society cannot support itself, debt will soon overtake revenue and the government could become so leveraged that it may collapse.



I guess it's all relative to belief, and subject to personal opinion. I see Socialism as far left and communism as tyrannical. I don't see anything benign about Socialism and if your definition is correct then the USA is already well into socialism and IMO a correction is needed.

It's not my intention to berate other social structures I just believe that the politicians should put country before graft, follow the constitution and stick to the principles that built this nation. To toss all aside for a dream of utopia that will never come to be, or a hope that the easy road will prove to be sustainable is pure folly. My point is we had a king once that didn't work for us and it won't work now. We need leaders not rulers, we can govern ourselves we can become producers again, we just need incentive.
 
Why so? What's Obama done that's so amazingly different to previous presidents? From a foreigner's perspective, he's been more than willing to give ground to his opposing party on pretty much all issues. That's pretty moderate if you ask me.
 
"Obama care" is a slap in the face to American values. It's not about fixing a broken health care system, it's about changing the system from a free market to a government controlled bureaucracy. America is about opportunity, it's about people living on their own terms. Little by little the elitist politicians chip away at our liberties until we cannot even feed ourselves, in order to have power you have to have submission, in order to have submission you have to have dependency. Americas plan was not to have career politicians, one was to serve and then step aside. The constitution is not perfect and one flaw IMO is that no term limits were set upon congress.
 
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