Student Tasered at Kerry Speech

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rawrtt

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Mar 30, 2008
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http://www.comcast.net/news/national/index.jsp?cat=DOMESTIC&fn=/2007/09/18/766456.html

Maybe it's just me, but I thought this was waaayyy out of line. 5 officers, 1 student, and they needed a TASER?!? Because he was being a bit obnoxious to a former Presidential candidate?

Sorry, but I had a scene erupt in "my" courtroom last week involving 3 criminal defendants, 3 deputies to start off with (ended up with 10), and no one needed a taser, billy club, or anything else. What's up that these officers are getting so damn force happy? Just because you are permitted to use force doesn't mean you need to use force, and this seems a bit over-the-top to me.
 
Well, the student was resisting arrest, and they told him multiple times that he would be tasered if he didn't stop, but he kept on yelling "what did I do" and struggling. If you're being arrested, it's best to keep quiet and do what they say instead of making it worse for yourself by yelling and trying to free yourself. Since this guy was acting up, you had no idea what he would do next.
 
I voted for Nader and will do it again, have no love for Kerry or the Democratic party. I've also been a student agitator and have been roughed up by campus police back in the day. Still, I have to make two points: a) according to the media accounts, the cops didn't make the decision to eject the guy, they were asked to do so by the groups sponsoring the event. You might argue that, if they were meeting in a taxpayer-funded university building, they had no right to make this decision, but one way or another it wasn't the cops' fault; b) the guy was resisting arrest and, under the circumstances, Taser was the option that posed least risk of injuring the other people who were sitting in their chairs in the audience. Pepper spray, billy clubs, etc. are less easily targeted than Tasers. Using some kind of Judo or BJJ on him might have made a better video for us on MAP to watch for training purposes, but it would have been more dangerous to everyone.
 
I thought this was going to be that UCLA thing from about a year ago (or maybe less). While the student may have been whiny and annoying while getting arrested, it doesn't sound like there was actually any need to use a taser on him.

Tasers are marketted as "safe", and "non-lethal", and police officers seem to have the idea that they should use them whenever someone's being a little bit disruptive. The problem is, though, there have been numerous deaths associated with tasers. They're not really a "safe", "non-lethal" weapon. Most of the time, they won't kill, but they have a much higher potential to kill, or at least, do damage than most of the other means of force available to officers (physical force from 2 or more officers, handcuffs, or heck, even a night stick, as long as you don't whack the guy in the spine).
 
I have to 100% disagree. There were FIVE deputies. You're telling me it takes FIVE deputies to subdue ONE scrawny geek? Bull, I've seen worse odds in Court and no need for weapons. It is a great example of the pure laziness being exhibited by officers lately.. "oh, he's resisting, well, what's the easiest way to subdue him?" Last time I checked, not the way things work. Or it shouldn't be, anyway.
 
I wonder if that is true, I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of deaths by TASER versus death by baton. I imagine they are not as different as you would think. Also whilst the risk of death may be slightly greater, lesser injuries would be fewer with TASER because there are minimal lasting effects.
 
How dare anyone ask any questions about Skull & Bones or Bohemian Grove. How can our Power Elite like John "Marry Up" Kerry, who btw served in Vietnam if you did not know, rule us with insolent brats like this running around?

1. Kid played right into the hands of the cops. Should have left and made a brewhaha in the media after being kicked out.

2. Not sure how kosher zapping the kid with the Taser was after he was down was. Seems to me that the old nutcracker knuckle or some form of qin na would have gotten compliance without the threat of death that the Taser poses.

What I object to is that the Taser is becoming some form of electric whip against citizens. I think we have problems when the police are allowed to use it as some form of recreational torture. Very disturbing.
 
based on the video, with the struggle going on in the middle of a bunch of chairs, do you think grappling him would have been less dangerous than taser?
 
Maybe a little over the top, but not much in my view.

Shouting "Don't Taze me man!" is all well and good, but it might have been more sensible to simply stop struggling. His actions belie his "surrendering" speech.




I didn't realize you regarded resisting arrest as a right.
 
Here's a link to the vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaiWCS10C5s&mode=related&search=

Hmmm...

The kid asked for it. Obviously he resisted arrest. The police on the scene had no way of knowing who he was or what he was about... he was ordered to comply and when he didn't they carried out their job. It's not an issue of free speech. But rather of some knuckle head college kid not knowing when to use common sense.

I think had he not been tazed it'd have been much worse for him. Despite what some have posted... he wasn't exactly a pencil neck geek. Someone his size amped on a bit of adrenalin and fear could become a real problem and inadvertently hurt people in the crowd, himself or the police officers.

The cops did what was best for everyone. Christ... didn't think I'd ever be saying that.

I suspect the real questions should be asked to organizers of the event as to what the rules of this sort forum are. Is debate allowed? Is it a one way speech? Where is the line drawn on what can and can't be said at this sort of event?

Starting about 1:50 into that clip is where he blows it.... he clearly resisted arrest. He clearly played right into police hands here. Dumb guy.
 
I don't think their attempt to arrest him had a solid lawful basis, personally.



I've seen a hell of a lot worse than that in open Court, Snorri. A lot less compliant, a lot more violent, and a lot more crowded. So the answer is "grappling would have been less dangerous and more apporpriate". I agree with El Tejon, tasers are quickly becoming electric whips used to keep the public in line needlessly.




I've seen small female officers take down aggressive defendants twice their size. At 5-1 odds, they went overboard.
 
Dom, doesn't Floriduh have some goofy "Disrupting an Assembly" statute or some such thing? I think that was what numbnuts was arrested for initially.

I don't like the cops using Tasers like cattle pods. Someone told me today that BICE cannot use Tasers against illegal alien detainees. However, they are used freely against citizens--something's very wrong. The War on the Citizenry needs to be stopped.
 
Big deal. It doesn't matter that some female deputy somewhere did that or will do it again. He resisted arrest and got tazed for his efforts. It's not a contest to see how few officers can take down a resisting problem. Its an issue of stopping a disturbance in short order.

I think had one of them locked this guy up with a come along or a wrist lock then he'd have ended up in more pain than just getting tazed. And yes FWIW I've been tazed... it's painful... but not the end of the world. I've ended up with far more pain from seemingly less painful come-alongs and wrists locks.

The entire point is that the police were there to keep order. This person was there to disrupt the event.... by resisting arrest or the efforts to move him out during the middle of it all he enacted his right to be tazed.

Did they say they were arresting him? I don't think I heard that...at least not initially when they started to move him out... I think he overreacted massively and got his sorry ass zapped. I suspect he was on what would be considered private property (but not entirely sure) so it's not going to be an issue of free speech or his right to act like a nimrod.

A classic case that illustrates it's not so much what you ask... but how you ask it... obviously he hasn't figured this out.
 
Kid sounds like a self righteous jackass. He mocked someone, and kudos for the joke, he then proceeded to be wrestled to the floor where he continued being a jackass and was warned of the consequences. (says 4 officers in the news story) He deserved what he got for what he did and he knew what was coming and continued to do the same things.
 
It wasn't the cops' decision to throw him out. All they could have done was to eject him with reasonable force, which they obviously tried to do. He resisted this and they arrested him. The issue is whether the force they used in the arrest was reasonable.

There is also a question of whether the sponsors were violating free speech or academic freedom by asking to have someone ejected from a public forum in a state university building on grounds that he was long winded and mildly disruptive. Back in my days as a student radical, I would have been incensed about that. Today, I'm not sure what I think of it.
 
They have it coming, they brought it on themselves. Well, well, well, hang the Banners High!

Wow, we need to save this thread the next time there is a disorderly conduct arrest at a Republican rally.
 
Those statutes, despite what the courts say, are so vague, open-ended, and overly broad as to be uttelry pointless. Disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace, etc. All worthless IMO.



Yes, it is relevant. I've watched the reactions of cops, deputies, probation officers, and youth correctional officers. I've seen worse defendants than that (just last week, as a matter of fact), and none of them have even been zapped. Especially not when it was 5-1! Based on my experinece and knowledge, I find the idea that a taser was necessary in this case to be ludicrous.



I am relatively familiar with use of force standards. I don't believe this was necessary. Although not compliant, he was, for the most part subdued. It wouldn't take a whole lot of effort to dump him on his tummy and cuff him IMO.



I disagree. Being a jackass doesn't give the cops (or rent-a-cops) the right to go overboard.



As usual, the line between "arrest" and "we're escorting you out of the building" is blurry at best (not uncommon, admittedly).
 
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