Stopping benefits for addicts

Guys last warning -

the thread is being dragged down a silly and fruitless path because of this fixation with Hannibal's working credential eg. being a cop. If you didn't know when the thread started you know it now. His job will bring a particular insight to the argument and it will also have it's blind spots. The same way each and everyone one of you will either come to the table with experience or not. It's what helps hash out the issues over the course of the thread....

So really... last warning... STOP running on and on about this and stay on the main topic or the thread gets locked.
 
i dont really like addicts, but my thoughts are somewhere in between Combat and Oweyn. It is a choice, but I also dont believe they woke up on some bright sunny cheerful day and think Oh I'll do alcohol/ciggies/weed/heroin/whateva today. Doesnt work that way. And yes I do have alkies and people addicted to cigs and my 20 year old cousin went to treatment to get help with his addiction. What I dont like about them addicts is, my first cousin is one, and she says oh i cant get my tomcat neutered and vaccinated i dont have money and it dont need to be done" but the addicts still got money for booze and cigs! Makes me want to smack her silly.
 
This is my take on the addiction issue.

I'm perfectly comfortable with the fact that doctors have identified characteristics in the physical make up of addicts brains that makes them prone to addictive behaviours. The truth of the matter is we're all prone to addiction to one degree or another. I'm also comfortable with the fact that those people we normally consider to be addicts are especially prone to becoming addicts. I can even accept that some people find nicotine just as addictive as heroin.

What I don't understand is why these people feel the rest of us owe them a living. I don't know what education programs are like elsewhere. But in Scotland every child is taught that drugs are addictive. Every child is shown the pictures of smokers lungs and alcoholics livers. A great deal of time and effort is spent on educating people about certain things that are bad for them. And yet they choose to indulge in these things any way.

I see no reason why I should pay for that. I'm all for treatment. In the long run if people accept the treatment and get clean, they can re-enter or enter the labour market and pay their own way in the world. I am not however in favour of just endlessly giving addicts welfare cheques with no end in sight.

I live in a council housing estate. Many of my neighbours are drug users, drug dealers and it seems professionally unemployed. So far this month they've had a party every single night. Claiming benefits is their way of life. I'm not a fan of government cuts. But even I admit this sort of thing has to stop.
 
I think the reason why they would be on welfare would be so they don't have to resort to more desperate measures to get their fix. I do agree that welfare for addicts isn't a long term fix, but until their is a way to crack down or find some other solution to the hard drug problems, what other alternative is there? Let them be homeless and desperate?
 
Yes.

I know is sounds cruel and heartless but as long as they are getting support they have no reason to quit. As long as they have access to their drug of choice they will continue to use until they hit bottom. You wouldn't believe how low some of their bottoms can be. Minimal shelter, minimal food and access to their drug, life is good.
 
Well, on one hand I personally don’t like the idea of enabling them. On the other hand, I think the idea that this would help addicts in general kick their addiction, is naive. The fact is that there are a lot of ways to feed these addictions.

When I was younger and still involved with speed, I was pretty much the only person in my circle that had a job. But I wasn’t the only one able to obtain what was desired. Adding to this, I also have several family members who are addicts, some addicted to crack and heroin, while others abuse various pharmaceuticals (that’s ignoring the alcoholics). They aren’t receiving hand outs, but they are still very much strung out all the same. Tough love, harsher jail sentences, etc . . . have failed at deterring new addicts from popping up, and at stopping the current ones from using by and large. I have a cousin in prison right now for the next forty eight (deserves it) years of his life. He went in clean and is now an active heroin addict.

So should they receive benefits? Uh, well, I don’t really know and am therefore going to avoid taking a hard-line stance on it in either direction. But is stopping their benefits somehow going to help them deal with their addictions? ‘I personally’ don’t think so.
 
I have no problem with tough love, but by desperate I mean desperate people do desperate things. Mugging, robbing, crime. When left with no other choice a heroin or a crack addict looking for a fix are basically possessed by their addiction. Right, wrong goes out the window. Would you want to bestow that upon society?
 
Haven't read the other posts but portugal made heroin legal and used the spare cash to help adicts.
 
Do you honestly think the money they get on welfare covers the cost of their addiction? You're living in the clouds if you do. These people can spend hundreds of pounds a day on drugs. They get that money any way they can. Which includes dealing, stealing, mugging and even killing people.

I think it's entirely reasonable to stop their benefits if they refuse treatment. The welfare system is first and foremost supposed to be a safety net for people who fall on hard times. While it has been expanded to cover many other areas. It was never designed to support these people throughout their entire lives. And that is what happens now.

If I quite my job tomorrow for no good reason I would not get any benefits because I intentionally made myself unemployed. If a self-employed person can't find work it's extremely difficult for them to get any sort of welfare help at all. Even though they've paid all the same tax as everybody else.

Get yourself an addiction or 15 kids by 20 fathers and suddenly you get everything you want. It's not right, it's not fair and it's not what the welfare system is for. The first step in stopping the abuse is cutting people off.
 
No, and if you read one of my earlier posts, I clearly mentioned people on 26k jobs can end up blowing all their money on drugs.

Like I said I agree, it shouldn't be for ALL their lives. But I don't see a better alternative, and I really don't think cutting them off will have any benefit.




I agree, especially about the babies for money and a home. But what is the alternative? I don't think cutting them off will do it, I don't think continually giving them welfare either will do it, I think there needs to be a serious look into this problem by the government instead of just cutting them off. But to get a better idea of how it affects us as a welfare state, anyone got any stats as to how many substance abusers are on benefits?
 
It's the first step. People need to be reminded they are supposed to look after and support themselves and their families. People complain when the state tells them how to live their lives. But then they also complain when the state refuses to pay for how they choose to live their lives.

One other thing I will say though. This type of cut will not make a substantial impact on the overall welfare bill. It's a popular move to pave the way for deeper cuts and cuts to middle income welfare payments like tax credits and child benefit.
 
Welfare is already being cut by about 2% if my memory serves correct from Newsnight last night, they are cutting benefits for people who care for dependants, crap my minds gone blank at the moment of some of the other cuts the conservatives have proposed.

Edit: Easier just to link it! http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01j5zrm/Newsnight_23_05_2012/

Ah not 2% they are planning on cutting 200 billion of the welfare budget. My mistake the current budget is 200 billion which has gone up by 55% mainly due to tax credits introduced by labour, the first 5 mins or so sums up some of the planned welfare cuts quite nicely.
 
As I said the deeper cuts are still to come and they'll hit middle income welfare benefits. Did you know someone earning £60,000 who has a child is entitled to child benefit? It's just madness.

There are basically two ways a welfare state can be run successfully. The first is high taxation and allow everybody to claim something back. The second is low taxation and provide a safety net only for the most vulnerable and needy in society. In the UK we're actually sitting somewhere in the middle.

We don't pay high enough taxes to allow everybody to claim something. But then we try to run a system where everybody can claim something. Which results in most areas of the welfare state becoming over stretched and underfunded.
 
No its not an illness and they need help but I could see them being locked up and go cold turkey. Why should we waste money so a junkie can get his next fix?
 
Then they'd simply come out still addicted. You have to want to quit. And even then, it's not easy.

And I don't buy the whole "People choose to do drugs" thing. Sure, some people do. But some people don't.

A friend of mine got addicted to crack and cigarettes when she was eight. Why? Because her mom said "Here. Try this." (Along with otherthe untreated psychological issues) And aren't we told to trust our parents?
 
That's a minority case. Most try it around 17/18, after they have been warned about the effects of it. I would love for all addicts to get the help they need, but if at the end of the day they can't kick the habit after all the help possible, then what's the point?
 
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