state of affairs....

[Dyl]

No that is definitely not what I am saying. I hope I never have to endure a world where nuclear weapons have been used and war is at my doorstep. Even if it meant a quicker trip up to heaven, I still wouldn't hope for anything like that. I believe that the course of human events has already been set and basically we just have to catch up to it.

Again, I'm no Islam scholar, but this is a my take on a major end times difference in Islam and Christianity. Nothing that happens on earth can make Jesus come back according to the Bible--there is a set time He will do so and it will be after certain events have unfolded, but the events themselves will not bring Him back. (I could be wrong here) but the Muslims believe that the occurrance of a holy war will bring back Muhammed (or someone) so they can fullfil their prophecies through their actions.

Now based on that, according to Christianity, we are not necessicarily facing the end of time within the next 10-20 years as many people including myself are worried about. A war against Isreal will not ensure the end, but it will ensure suffering on a grand scale. Things could quiet down around the world and as one poster said just because you have nukes doesn't mean you have to use them. That, in fact, is the scenario I am hoping for. I don't really belive that will be case, but truly I do wish it. I would hate to have to continue on in a world where someone had attempted to fullfill end of time prophecy, ruined the environment, killed untold number of people, destroyed our economic system and still didn't succeed in bringing about the end.

 

[k3n5h1n]

Listmaker, you have some very good points and they've calmed me down a little bit!

But, I must respectfully disagree. He may not be a maniac or genocidal now, but if the extremeists do keep whispering in his ear and he keeps on going down to South America to talk about the demise of the US with Chavez, then he could easily cross over that line. I don't buy the "empty rhetoric" argument, but even if that is the case, we still need to be concerned about those hardliners who are controlling Amidenijad like a puppet. Also, I don't see how a person could be anti-zionist and not support their (eventual) slaughter. Do you really think that if the nation of Isreal was dissolved that the Jews would suddenly be welcomed in Iran, Iraq, Palestine neighborhoods? That they would be left alone in Jerusaelum to continue their lives quietly? I don't think so.

 

[krisbrown1979]

Dude, there are tens of thousands of Jews living in Iran RIGHT NOW.

 

[littlelmissy]

I'd answer this post but I dont actually know what you are saying.

 

[Pandacutie]

I would like to point to historical president.
Before partition there was for the most part a brotherly peace between Muslim Arabs, Christians and Jews in the Middle East for several centuries at least. It was the confiscation of Palestinian land in the mid 20th century which sparked the current conflict.

There are still many Jews and Christians peacefully living in Muslim countries such as Morocco and Iran. Although a lot of s*** happened during the revolution, Iran is moving forward. For example Zoroastrianism was pretty much banned after the revolution but open practice is now accepted. Remember Iranian society is a lot more progressive than their legislature might suggest.

So yes, I think it would most certainly be possible for the most part. It was possible for Saladin to let Christians live peacefully in Jerusalem after expelling the Crusaders, even after centuries of war and atrocities.


History is very important to Iranians who are very proud of their 5000 years of Persian culture. Infact the 1st declaration of human rights was Persian in origin formulated by Sirius the great in 550 B.C. The Islamic hard liners in Tehran are also very nationalist and Pro Persian culture v Arab culture.
They value Persian identity and this includes tolerating populations of Jews and Christians. That is not to say there aren’t Iranians shouting for a completely Islamic Iran but these people are on the fringes of Iranian society and even you average hard line Mullah doesn’t listen to them if he wants to be taken seriously.




It is in fact very easy to be against the policies and even the existence of the state of Israel without hating its citizens or wishing to wipe out an entire race. Perhaps the Americans felt the same way about the Taliban in Afghanistan? They hated the Taliban but not the ordinary Afghan?

If some fowl mouthed crazy squatters suddenly move onto your house, set up camp and made nasty gestures to you whenever you came out, most people would want them out but would you really want to kill them in cold blood?

 

[ShreeyaP]

i agree, let me phrase this right. i am very anti-abarhamic religion. but i wouldn't wish anyones destruction, if that makes sense.

 

[Veldon15]

Like any government that is not an absolute monarchy or dictatorship the Iranian administration is full of subtle interplays of power and leverage.

Thus meaning that for any one individual, including the president, there are many checks and balances to insure rash and foolish actions are very unlikely to be successfully carried out by one person or a small group of people.

I’m no fan of Chavez but he gets an unfair rap in the American media (especially Fox). I respectfully request you look into his history and that of Venezuela before believing him to be a threat to the US.

He’s better than practically every previous US backed South American dictator by far (come on he’s no Pinochet).
And who can blame Venezuelan politics for taking an anti American tern after decades of US diplomats convincing corrupt elite politicians to take out loans the country could never pay back and watch as the money was squandered, often on useless projects proposed by and contracted to American firms. Thus ensuring oil rich Venezuela was forever indebted to the US.

 

[soybeansauce06]

Hey listmaker,

You do have some good points again. And I do take back the anti-zionist = eventual slaughter thing; there's a bunch of steps in between before things would/could come that extreme.

However, do you guys not just feel like something is about to happen? That things are about to come to a head in some way? I think that is the whole reason this thread was started. I admit I fail to see the gray area a lot of times, but world events are unfolding, sometimes subtlely, sometimes not that are leading up something terrible. I feel it and I won't ignore it.

 

[volcomchick28]

hillbilly, you're right in a sense, but its only in holding a belief to be absolutely certain, to have unbreakable faith in something that you get that result. unbreakable faith will eventually lead to violence towards its antithesis every single time. also, in regards to your end time response. so if the things fortold in your special book came to passin prophecy terms, and you thought for certain that your god would come down would you be happy? that thought process isn't good for sustaining a future for the rest of the planet, it means you pretty much let everything else fall to the way side, i'm trying to show you how thats not healthy for civillization

 

[donnyp]

tekkengod - That's the closest you've ever come to actually making sense! I think there are some good points lurking in there.

hillbilly - people have been predicting the imminent arrival of the 'apocalypse' for two thousand years now. ("The end of the world is nigh!") So I suppose you are in good company, if being in the company of lot's of people who were completely wrong is 'good'.

 

[VictorT]

lol thats pretty much what i've been saying for a few weeks now!

 

[Animeupsessed]

But let's explore one thing about my unbreakable faith. I'm sittin up here in the hills bein a hick, don't know any Jews, don't know any Muslims, no plans to go to the Middle East, and certainly don't have political influence. Yes, I believe in prophecies of Bible, but do the Isreali/Jewish leaders believe in them? do the Muslims believe in them (other than Koran's prophecies)? Muslims definitely not; Jews probably not. Where I'm going at with this is that I have done some reading on the end times and by being observant, I am looking for how it is all coming together. Just because me and some other hillbillies believe in the apocolypse is not causing it to happen. Events, countries, people, nations are coming together and drawing apart completely beyond mine or any one's control to (seemingly) fulfill prophecy.

Now, a clarification on God coming down. Many Christians in the US believe that they are going to be whisked up to heaven and get to avoid the nastiness of the seven-year tribulation. I used to believe it until I actually tried to find the order of things and realized that an actual order is not given. Having said that, I have switched to believing that Christians will have to endure part of, if not all of the tribulation. Don't know how much you know about the tribulation, but there is some rather unpleasant things going to happen, that kinda make death sound easier than survival during those seven years. So no it does not make me "happy" that I could be living in the last days.

I'm not exactly sure what you meant about everything falling to the way side. But based on preceeding paragraph, I can't let everything fall to the way side because I could very well be here until the real end when the earth is finally destroyed.

 

[shadowprime02]

One interesting episode in history springs to mind.

The Etruscans had a prophecy that their civilization would only last 1000 years and when the 1000 where about up they ceased to vigorously resist the Romans as they had been doing and they became more absorbed in squabbles between Etruscan city-states.
They seemed to lose spirit and where eventually conquered by the Romans.

It is not conclusive whether the prophecy had a part to play in the aforementioned events but many archeologists believe it was a factor.

 

[LindseyWhitley]

I remember my granddad telling me how many people he knew who thought Hitler was the Anti Christ and the apocalypse was neigh during WW2.

 

[CoryT]

The only advice I can offer you is to address your insecurity by learning about what is actually happening in the world. Then, once you are secure, find someone who is not and help them. So for what it's worth, two easy steps: education and then action.

There are already so many terrible events already happening in the world; just because they don't affect you doesn't mean you should ignore them. So rather than sitting and waiting for the end of the world, why not do something useful and try and improve things for someone?

 

[boutux]

Perhaps I shall try to educate as many people as possible about the coming judgement. You think I am ignoring the terrible things in the world right now? The most useful thing I can do to improve things for people everywhere is to warn them so that they are not unprepared when everything unravels.

 

[dancingcatfrog]

I think the most useful thing you could do is get out more.

 

[Syrup]

Oooo! That makes me want to give up the simple happy life that I have and trade it for art galleries, crime, and traffic jams. What you fail to realize is that I'm in majority here in my precious hills.

 

[Poppypunto]

mmmmmmm... the only 'apocalypse' that will happen will be man-made, and will have nothing to do with our so called 'god'.

I really see no happy ending to the current ‘tensions’ 'if you want to call it that. It all boils down to human nature. The 'us' and 'them'. As much as we like to think we have, we havent shaken off our animal within. Man, and women, are an evolved ape. We are still bound up with the need for territory. In this respect, i do not believe we have grown beyond our primitive ancestors.

People say religion is a good thing. I suppose it is to many. But all i see is centuries of bloodshed and oppression. Also i see it as a social division, which causes tension like i said the 'us' and 'them'. But if it wasnt religion it would be something else. Its in our nature to find conflict. Get 20 complete strangers together for a length of time, and they will divide and conquer, squabble, and draw a division.

People always say they wish for 'world peace and unity'. If religion was all good and holy, and so many people are 'religious', then how come there has never been peace on earth. Answer; Human nature. There is no 'holyness' waiting. Their is no 'god'. There never will be a happy ending, only death and nothingness. This planet and our lives mean nothing in the big picture. All our problems are socially constructed buy ourselves, buy our very nature.

We have lived on this planet for Thousands of years, we have never had peace, we have never all got on, and we never will. Humans never learn from there mistakes of drawing divisions and fighting for power even though it drings death and sets up a fall. We will never learn because its natural to us.

The day we accept this fact, the day it may eventually start to get better. I hope so, but you cant change nature.

 

[motorrobin]

and only in the hills with no influence should your beliefs be accepted.