question about karate and taekwondo belts?

[monitoravenue9939]

I have been lurking for a while, before I finally decided to join. In several replies to questions about belt rankings, people have said that there are really only white belts and black belts.
Color belts are gimmicks for money making so that instructors can charge testing fees- a color belt is "really" just a white belt. Is that argument accurate? if not, why not?

 

[cheetah]

I disagree. The belt testing fees in my dojang don't even pay the utility fee for the lights being on, not to mention the time invested in the Instructor and Asst Instructors opportunity time lost during colored belt testings. I think the reasoning for the colored belts is to keep people interested. Small victories with each new color achieved. In this society of want it all now, no one has the patience to be a white belt for 5 years until they reach black belt. Sparring also comes into play as you wouldn't want a 4th year white belt sparring full contact with a 1st year white belt. That would be demoralizing for the beginner and possibly dangerous if the advanced student didn't know the other was a beginner.

 

[Possum]

Sort of. There are legitimate purposes for belts and colors. A good instructor does not need to use belts, but they can help the instructor visually divide classes; they (and their tests) provide incentives to practice at home; and they are gauges for what has, and what has yet to be, learned.

However, they can also be abused by both instructor and student.

The instructor can abuse them by creating contracts based on belts, and tests for belts can be exorbitant.

Students can abuse them by bragging, creating cliques and hierarchies, and using them as bargaining chips (I'll only join if I start out as black belt that I earned from my previous school").

So yes, they can be gimicks. But they can also be legitimate.

And as to black belt? Some styles do not have them (traditional Tang Soo Do, for instance, uses midnight blue; their thinking is that black represents a color to which nothing more can be added.) Some styles like Kung Fu don't use belts at all.

Some styles don't even use uniforms!

I often see the belt process like buying a new car. If you get a good deal on a purchase, you can be sure that you're not going to get the best value for trade-in. Or vice-versa. Many schools - even reputable ones - will charge nominal prices for belt testing but will have higher monthly fees/dues. Or, they charge a lot of money for testing, but have low monthly dues.

Personally, I prefer the low monthly dues + higher test fees, as long as there is the potential to fail the test. This creates the incentive to really practice at home. Most schools do not make a killing on test fees, though the sudden influx of money can mean the difference between replacing a torn mat or getting new weapons, vs having to wait a few more months. But it is also clear that schools are run like a business, and there are high monthly fees and high test fees. This is not the spirit of martial arts.

I do not value belts. I do not value rank. The more it is desired, the less value it has because of the shift in focus.

I value character and quality. These characteristics transcend belt color.

 

[pie1]

officially there is only black and white belts as black is technically the beginning but that is not say that instructors are scamming you with colours it is to say that the colours are club specific and it is for the club tutors to differentiate between different qyu grades.

 

[ColetDeathMetalRockst]

Most likley, but my master does not charge for them. They are used to represent the stages of color your belt turns as it slowly turns black over time ( the way it used to be) but there is belt systems In more than just taekwondo and karate. Pretty much all martial arts besides muay Thai

 

[TristanOdysseus]

My school only asks fees to pay for the rent and to pay the small registration fees to the Federation. After a grading my instructor personally buys belts out of his own pocket for the students who have passed: A sign of goodwill and pride.

Belts have turned to colors since martial arts have become sport-like. They are very important logistically for tournaments, gradings and just class training. 'You three greens, do this pattern. You four red belts, do your pattern.'

I know of Shotokan Karate dojos that have a dozen colors along with 3 stripes possible on each. They can be abusing about it but martial arts in our modern era have both been organized and commercialized and colors are here to stay.

Just check if you think the school is abusing the color belt system. Go train elsewhere if that is the case.

Final summation? The argument is not accurate. Color belts are very useful. Yet always keep it in the back of your mind: martial arts is a business.

 

[MerryChristmastx]

I agree! There's a total of 11 belts in Shotokan Karate, It's £20 per grading so that's about £220 to get from white belt to black belt, plus you got to re-new the licence once year and that's £30 and the price rises every year by £1 or £2.

 

[pugpaws2]

There were color belts being used in all styles of Karate, Taekwondo, Judo, and other arts when I began my training in 1967. There were however no children in 99% of the martial arts schools at that time. Most styles and organizations had only a few color belts between white belt and first degree black belt. Over the years many groups have added belts, and stripes, to make more money. The ATA for example is a big offender in this area. They not only have something like 15 belts levels before Black Belt, they have something they call a "Recommended rank". Total BS and none of this trash in necessary. Bottom line here is no legitimate martial arts needs to resort to after school pickup of students, Saturday birthday parties, Black Belt Clubs, Recommended ranks, 15 belt levels (more than 5 color belts is to much), contracts for black belt......... These and children wearing black belts, is totally uncalled for. In the 1960's there were, as I said, almost no children in the martial arts. Now Children account for more than 85% of all martial arts students in the U.S.A. There is no way anyone can tell me the black belts of today come anywhere close to being one tenth as good as the black belts in the 1960's. Heck most adults could not take the training and would drop out at an alarming rate then. no one is going to convince me that the children today are real black belts. Most don't even know how to tie their belts correctly.

So today we have a majority of martial arts schools that are in business for business sake and profits. Some are outright frauds. The sad part is many started as legitimate schools teaching real self-defense. Over time they so slowly changed to compete in the current business climate. Even sadder is the many well meaning instructors that truly believe that they are doing their community a service by running their childrens black belt program.


....

 

[JimR1]

Belts were introduced to determine the levels of competition between intermediate students in judo's sporting environment. They serve the same purpose for other sporting arts. For protection training the belts are of less value to both teachers and students alike. Sport is about fair competition, but protection arts are about surviving. nobody ever asked me what my belt color was before attacking me, except in karate tournaments.
There is also something to the monetary effect of all the belts. Some do use them for mostly creating cash flow. I personally strongly disagree with this practise.

 

[Reina]

Personally, I think the belts are sort of gimmicks for money making but I wouldn't say that argument is accurate. As a white belt you learn the basics, but then you are ready to move up to the next level. Having different colored belts helps accurately put you in a group so if you need to work on something, it is more specific to your rank and can help you learn more. It's like saying if you're not first you're last.

 

[benofpiiru]

Tying a particular belt color doesn't mean you are worthy of more respect or have more and better skills than students of a lesser rank. A black belt can always learn something new about his style and about martial arts in general from a white belt. In Aikido, they typically wear only white and black belts, and the masters and students say "onegaishimasu" before practicing in pairs, which translates to roughly "please teach me." Belt color in general is meaningless. Take also Muay Thai. No belts at all! The teachers and students recognize talent, but it is not rewarded. Reward for hard work is not the martial art way. I say again, belts are meaningless.

 

[RobM]

yes belts are just a means of making money for dojos, orignially there where white belts that turn black over the years of wear,the belts where not washed and discolored and it took years so you were finally a black belt,, i have been a white belt all of my life,!! but the school i went to didnt make you try out for belts, i got to learn more and more as i was there,i could work with a black belt and sitll feel comfortable, and i dont care about a belt ranking, i can defend myself onthe street, ,you might try and find a jui jit su, dojo and look at that art, it is a good basic marshall art that is, not just all about offensive arts and has some defensive moves as well,ieven went to a self defense course their that was a combination of arts that was very interesitng, the basic idea os to buoild confidence and be able to protect yourself,

 

[jwbulldogs]

There are schools that use belts as a way to make additional money. In my opinion that is not a good practice. They charge inflating high fees for belts and testing. In my opinion there is no way to justify this. If it cost $20 to test for yellow belt it should be $20 to test for brown or black belt.


However, there are school to have ceremonies to go along with promotions. A portion of the fees goes towards the cost of the ceremony, certificate and registrations. This in my opinion is perfectly acceptable.

In our dojo we normally didn't charge for any testing. You only tested upon recommendations. However, there were a few cases that I witnessed that there was a $25 charge for a test. There was a student that wanted his black belt after years of study with us. He was moving out of state soon and desired to get the belt before he moved. He didn't have any recommendation, but really wanted to try to test. After a while my sensei said okay you can test because you are insisting, but you will have to pay a fee for the test. I don't believe you are ready. I won't test you. I will bring in some impartial instructors to test you. We will live with whatever they say. Regardless of pass or fail you have to pay the fee. He agreed and paid the fee. The fee went to the instructor from the outside dojo. I was his uke for the test. He failed the test. He was given more time to prepare before he could retest. He had to pay another fee and failed this test too with a different set of instructors. It was no fun being his uke. He had to defend against attacks from me. After my attacks he had to counter with a minimum amount of strikes, kicks, etc and he had to take me down to incapacitate me. This is where he struggled. It was hard for me too because I had to hit the floor for real. We didn't have any mats. I'm taking falls and he was lost on what to do. I tried to help him look good, but I couldn't tell him what to do. Because he was failing I didn't want to hit the floor anymore. I recall saying to myself I'm not going to be his uke again. I wasn't going to take this punishment if he is not ready to test. He went back and trained harder and bettered prepared himself. Months later he was tested again. Finally he passed. A few months later he moved from the Midwest to the East Coast to pursue his dream in acting. He has come back to visit and train.

That is a myth that white belts are worn without washing and that they eventually turn black because of dirt and oil. The culture of those raised in the Far East is that of a very traditional and clean. It would be considered disrespectful to come into the dojo with an unclean uniform. The obi is part of the uniform.

There are arts that only have white and black belts. There are some that have white, brown then black. The colored belt system was started by Dr. Jigoro Kano the founder of judo. It was used to show the progression of levels and learned techniques by its students (judoka). Others saw what was being done in judo and liked it. They decided to follow are create a similar system. later people began to add more belts, stripes, or tips to show progress and as a way to charge additional money.

I personally know one school that uses tips. They don't charge fr the tips. He uses it as a measurement to say that they completed a certain set of requirements. While I don't think all of that is necessary, it works in his dojo. He does charge fees for his testing. He has a commercial dojo and has to pay the rent.

I'm grateful that our dojo does not have that type of overhead.Therefore we don't have to charge for test or belts. We do not charge students to train with us. Many of our students wouldn't be able to afford to train inf there were monthly fees and dues. In the recent years our organization told my instructor that we must charge something for the test, especially since we don't charge for classes. So our test fee is $ 25. The student gets a brand new belt, patch and certificate of rank.

When I first began martial arts in 1982 we used to dye our belts after we got promoted. There was a small testing fee. I don't remember the cost. I paid for it myself by doing odd jobs like raking leaves, shoveling snow, planting gardens, grass, or other jobs like cleaning out people attacks. I also paid my own tournament fees, uniforms, and monthly dues.

In judo I went from:
white
yellow
orange
blue
brown
We got a certificate and a kyu rank patch.

 

[LIONDANCER]

Yes, it's accurate a lot of times especially if you have every color belt under the rainbow and charge a lot for the testing. My school has three colors. White to hold your gi together, yellow for beginner, green for intermediate and brown for advanced and then there is black. The color belt simply make it easier at big seminars to see off the bat who is beginner, intermediate and advanced. That's all.
Originally, there was only white and black belts and the colored ranks were introduced only later when martial art was commercialized. Actually Judo was the first art to implement the colored ranks.

 

[JeR]

I agree to some of your points but also disagree with some. You are using a pretty wide brush to paint all schools or instructors. We have four levels of belts and I don't charge for belt testing nor do any of my instructors in the other schools that I am over. However we do charge the students for the belts. Seeing as I basically teach for nothing doesn't mean I can afford to give belts away.
The only reason we have different belt levels is so the students know how they are progressing. Maybe that is a lame reason but it helps to break up the groups so they can train at their respective levels. There are obviously some schools or styles that make a lot of money off of testing, especially those that have fifteen belt levels and stripes. that I consider a McDojo.