Masters of Judaism: God cannot come in the flesh? Please explain to us...

[DonR]

..."unto us a child is born.. MIGHTY GOD? "For unto us [Hebrews] a child IS BORN, Unto us a SON given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, MIGHTY GOD, EVERLASTING FATHER, Prince of Peace. Of the increasing government and peace no end, Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom, to order and establish it with judgment and justice, from that time forward, even forever." (Isaiah 9:6-7) NKJV Interpolation mine

Will some masters of Judaism please inform all Jews that is can't be because God is not man and will not come in the flesh. And curse is he who relies on the arm of man. It would help us foolish Christians to stop calling our coming Messiah "God".

 

[polskajason]

Your answer is in what you honestly state: you got that quote from NKJV.

King James was not a Jew. He did not speak Hebrew. His Bible is a *translation* into Early Modern English. It has an agenda, like most Christian "Old Testaments" and that's to make certain passages look like they're talking about Jesus.

We Jews often use the JPS (Jewish Publication Society) translation from the *original* Hebrew, which retains the closest (often ambiguous) meaning.

Here's Isaiah 9: 5-6:
5 For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us, and the authority was placed upon his shoulder, and [He, the] Wondrous Adviser, Mighty God, Eternal Father/Patron, called his name: Ruler of Peace;"
6 for the increase of the authority and for peace without end, on David's throne and on his kingdom, to establish it and to establish it with justice and with righteousness; from now and to eternity, the zeal of the Lord of Hosts shall accomplish this.

God was calling him "Ruler of Peace." Why? He's talking about Hezekiah, who ruled for a long period of peace.

 

[777thSabbath]

This prophecy was given to Ahaz and his child was Hezekiah. This was the meaning of the name Hezekiah but this does not made Hezekiah as Yahweh. It is the meaning of particular name. It was the proof to Ahaz that Yahweh will not forsake them by giving Ahaz a son whose name is Immanuel (El is with us). Then another son is born whose name is Mahershalalhashbaz, which means haste, spoil, speed, prey. This was to calm Ahaz about the Assyrian invasion and their defeat. In Masoretic text, that verse means, Wonderful in Counsel is Yahweh the Mighty, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. It is a praise to Yahweh, not given to any man.

 

[Glenda]

dfs

 

[theguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0F3LKaGN2A

 

[mmamapajamam1]

It doesn't take a "Master" of Judaism to read and understand the Tanakh. Just a little study and desire to actually read what the authors of those texts said in context. Because another Yahoo user wrote a better explanation of the particular passage than I did, I'll just share his answer here, and use this space to address the reason why believing Jews will never worship a man as a god. http://home.comcast.net/~fiddlerzvi/j4j_no.html#Isaiah9 < Please read carefully. You are capable of comprehending this if you try.
Christianity is a different religion, a different covenant, it redefined the nature of God and the nature of Messiah. The Hebrew Bible, the Tanakh, refers to all anointed rulers as mosiach (messiah in English). If you are asking about the prophecy of the Davidic Messiah and the Messianic Age then you will have distinctly different answers from Judaism and Christianity. The prophetic vision of the Davidic Messiah for Israel remains in Judaism as it is found in the Tanakh, that one day an anointed ruler (messiah) from the line of David will rule with great humility and justice to usher in a world without bigotry and war and help lead the world to universal knowledge of God in brotherhood. The Torah and Tanakh repeatedly states God does not become a man and the notion of men as deities is condemned in several lengthy narratives. All surrounding nations were idolatrous and worshipped deities who represented on earth in human form through their kings/Pharaohs. Often the killing and sacrifice of their incarnate god/man ruler atoned for the sins of his people. Those widespread beliefs and practices continued for thousands and thousands of years among many peoples.
The eternal covenant people, Israel, the Jewish people are to be set apart from those pagan and idolatrous practices. For a believing Jew to worship a human being is considered idolatry and pagan.
The story of Exodus, the Passover that Jews memorialize each year has an unmistakable lesson teaching about the rejection of the notion of a man as a deity.
God is omnipotent. If God CAN do anything, the question can God take a physical form is moot. The question should be WOULD God lie about the very nature of his being to the very people he made an eternal covenant of faith with and lie about what he would or would not do?
Jews believe that God told the truth in the Torah to us. That is the faith we hold today, that the nature of God did not change because God told us this explicitly in the Torah. For a Jewish Bible (Tanakh) concept of the nature of God, in the Torah it declares outright that God is One. God is not a man, nor does God become a man. In Exodus, in Numbers in Isaiah and Ezekiel...and other places, the very notion of a human becoming a deity is condemned quite harshly. This eliminates the Christian tripartate deity as Torah compatible. Shema Yisrael Adonai Elohanu Adonai echad.
Hear, O'Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is ONE
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man that He should lie, nor is He a mortal that He should repent. Would He say and not do, speak and not fulfill?
Hosea 11:9 I will not execute the fierceness of my anger.
I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of you;
and I will not come in wrath.
Samuel 15:29. And also, the Strength of Israel will neither lie nor repent, for He is not a man to repent."
Also, God tells us he does not change: Malachi 3:6
The Torah states God does not become a man. The Torah forbids Jews to worship anything on earth or in heaven other than God. The Jewish religion's laws forbid worship of any human. Thus, the Christian view of the anti-christ is abhorrent to the Torah's view of Messiah, too. Believing Jews would not ever worship a man as an incarnate deity. Many of us believe that it is the very role of all of Israel to bring the messianic age through Tikkun Olam, or "repairing the world" through our actions. The role of Israel to be a light unto the nation implies responsibility to change, improve, and fix our earthly surrounding. This implies that each person has a hand in working towards the betterment of his or her own existence as well as the lives of future generations. Judaism honors God’s gift of life and does not obsess, as did the Egyptians, with the afterlife. While it is an aspect of our faith that we believe God will do as promised, Judaism is a fulfilling faith and path without the Davidic Messiah’s presence and messianic age being here yet. We hope our actions help bring about the age of the messiah, but we focus on fulfilling our purpose as humans to all living. Judaism focuses on the gift of this life and our responsibilities to the lives that come after us. Jews are obligated to participate in repairing the world by participating in tzedakah (justice and righteousness) and g'milut hasadim (acts of loving kindness).

 

[JohnArguelles]

I wouldn't use any translations of the Christian bibles since the text (words) and verses out of context. In 1 Samuel 15:29: "The Eternal One of Israel will not lie nor change His mind: for He is not a man that He should change his mind."

Numbers 23:19: "G-d is not a man that He should lie, nor a mortal that He should change His mind."

Deuteronomy: 411-12: "You cam near and stood at the foot of the mountain while it blazed with fire to the very heavens, with black clouds and deep darkness. Then the L-rd spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound but saw no image; there was only a voice."

As you can see from the verses G-d is one, inoperable (cannot be divided), cannot become a man or an animal.

Isaiah is known for the method by which he presents many of his messages through the use of prophetic names (Isaiah 7:3, 14; 8:3). In the verse under study, the prophet expounds his message by formulating a prophetic name for Hezekiah. The words of this name form a sentence expressive of God's greatness, which will become manifest in the benefits to be bestowed upon the future king in his lifetime. Thus, the name, though borne by the king, serves, in reality, as a testimonial to God. Hezekiah is called "a wonderful counselor" because this name is a sign, which foretells God's design for him.

The Lord of hosts has sworn, saying: "As I have thought, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand, that I will break Asshur in My land, and upon My mountains trample him under foot; then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulder." This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth; and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations. For the Lord of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it? And His hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? (Isaiah 14:24-27)

Be not afraid of the words that you have heard, with which the servants of the king of Assyria have blasphemed Me. Behold, I will put a spirit in him, and he shall hear a rumor, and shall return to his own land; and I will cause him to fall by the sword in his own land. (Isaiah 37:6-7)

Hezekiah is called "the mighty God" because this name is a sign that foretells God's defense of Jerusalem through the miraculous sudden mass death of Sennacherib's army.

Therefore thus says the Lord concerning the king of Assyria: He shall not come to this city, nor shoot an arrow there, neither shall he come before it with shield, nor cast a mound against it. By the way that he came, by the same shall he return, and he shall not come to this city, says the Lord. For I will defend this city to save it, for My own sake, and for My servant David's sake. (Isaiah 37:33-35)

Hezekiah is called "the everlasting Father" because this name is a sign, which foretells that God will add years to his life. "Go, and say to Hezekiah: Thus says the Lord, the God of David your father: I have heard your prayer, I have seen your tears; behold, I will add to your days fifteen years" (Isaiah 38:5). Hezekiah is called "the ruler of peace" because this name is a sign, which foretells that God would be merciful to him. Punishment for lack of faith in the Almighty will be deferred and peace granted during the last years of his rule. "Then said Hezekiah to Isaiah: 'Good is the word of the Lord which you have spoken.' He said moreover: 'If but there shall be peace and security in my days'" (Isaiah 39:8). The fulfillment of the above-stated declarations is foretold in Isaiah 9:6, when, after the Assyrian defeat, Hezekiah's glory increased and peace reigned for the rest of his life (2 Chronicles 32:23). Archaeologists have found that there was a sudden expansion of Judean settlements in the years following the fall of the northern kingdom. This indicates that many refugees fled south, thus giving added significance to the statement "that the government may be increased." Hezekiah's kingdom is declared to be forever, for through his efforts to cleanse the Temple ritual of idolatry, even though apostasy followed under his son Menasseh, the Davidic dynasty was once more confirmed as the only true kingly rule that God would accept over his people "from henceforth and forever." The greatness of Hezekiah lies in his setting the stage for Israel's future. Hezekiah was a true reformer. He cleansed religious worship of foreign influence, purged the palace and the Temple of images and pagan altars, and reestablished pure monotheistic religion. In the long run Hezekiah's achievements would outlive him, leaving an everlasting, indelible impact on the history of his people. Thus, God, through Isaiah, bestows upon Hezekiah this name which honors the king by proclaiming the great things God will do for him, and, through him, for the people of Israel.
I know you're a Christian and I can respect what you believe in your life. But in Judaism everything is different.