Israel - Palestine (Again)

Hopefully we humanity has moved on since then, ethnic cleansing and genocide are widely regarded throughout the world as being a bad ideas.

There is no way to justify ethnic cleansing whether whether it the being done by the Nazi's or by the Jews, there can be no double standards,
 
Agreed. Now tell your buddies the Palestinians that and once they've agreed it's a bad idea, the rest of us will work on the Israelis. Let's not forget that one side in this struggle feels all of its ills will be solved if they can just return to their enlighted 13th century lifestyle and laws. (as a hint, it's not the Israelis) It's kinda hard to 'move on' when one side in the dispute wants a return to the good ole' days of 13th century Sha'ria. Ah yes, the golden age of Palestine circa 1213 A.D., when women wore burkas and weren't allowed to speak to men, starving thieves had their hands chopped off, and sheep everywhere were terrified.

So we're agreed then, no double standands. In other words, as soon as Hamas renounces the Sha'ria we can start dealing with the Palestinians and Israelis on equal terms and hopefully, build a better Palestine. I'm so glad you've finally come around.
 
oh dear

you seem to assume that i am buddies with an entire nation, i have met a few palestinians before but that was a long time ago.

as for burkas many women choose to wear burkas, thats there choice, as for sharia or islamic law its largely down to enterpretation.

as for double standards i was refering to the ethnic cleansing and occupation of palestine, ethnic cleansing and occupation are despicable whether it is in the hands of Nazi's or Zionists or Saddam Husain
 
Of course it is not Israel's goal to ethnic cleanse anyone. There are those on the opposite side who would like to wipe Israel into the sea.
 
would i like to destroy Israel? well, no not particularly. but the fact that their conflict is and could be more of a problem for us motivates me to destroy them both. which poses another question, what happens to the middle eastern tension when those 2 are finally done?
 
the first part of that post was me being sarcastic, but the real question is what DOES happen when they're done?
 
The answer to that question is dependent on who 'wins'. My guess is we'll never really have to worry about it though. The Arab states don't really like the Palestinians and aren't interested in seeing anything resembling a strong Palestinian state. If they were, they'd have opened their borders to them decades ago, instead of forcing them out at gunpoint. They are however, interested in seeing Israel bled out and ultimately destroyed. That's why Arab states continue to 'support' the Palestinians with low-order weapons, money, and a whole lot of meaningless lip service. Israel on the other hand, will continue to be hamstrung by the US in exchange for support. The US and Europe won't tolerate an all out attack on the "poor Palestinians" regardless of what attrocities they've committed and hold their much needed aid over the Israelis head to keep them in check. It all adds up to a perpetual cycle of conflict and hate.

That said, I think all hell is going to break loose when the Palestinians kill that Israeli soldier. The US will let the Israelis vent a little with some airstrikes and maybe a tank incursion, but then we'll pull the reins in and make them calm down. The irony is we think we're helping the Palestinians when we do that while they think we're using the Israelis as a proxy to attack them.
 
palestine/isreael...

i remember being at school and being taught something about a conflict... alot of it was recorded in a book... oh, yeah, the old testament, that was it...

that bit of land has caused more trouble than its worth for the last few thousands years...

lets just build an out-of-town shopping complex on it and a great big car-park and see who wants to fight over it then...
 
Are you truely this naive? Do you think Saudi women have a choice about the burka? It's true that in Afghanistan women have a choice, courtesy the presence of several thousand American soldiers. Of course prior to that under the Taliban, Afghan women could be executed for not wearing their burka. Some choice: wear the veil or have your head chopped off. However, to make this relevant to the Palestinian issue, lest you accuse me of indicting all of Islam again, Hamas is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood advocates a strict interpretation of the Koran and the Sha'ria. Hamas, the elected leaders of the Palestinains with control of 74 of 132 seats of the Palestinian Legislative Council and part of the Muslim Brotherhood, advocates a strict interpretation of the Koran and the Sha'ria. How can you stand there pointing fingers at the Israelis while turning a blind eye to the gross human rights violations implicit in the very existence of Hamas? Half of the Hamas charter and the Sha'ria are in direct oppostion to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, yet you continue to defend these people while accusing the Israelis of being like the Nazis. When are you going to wake up and see Hamas for what they are?
 
many muslim women in western contries choose to wear the burka, that is there choice, anyway what have the taliban go to do with Israel and Palestine ?



like it or not Hamas are democraticaly elected, do you object to democracy in Palestine ?

you seem to object to a piece of paper whereas i object to the illegal occupation of palestine and to the oppresion of the Palestinian people.

The Palestinians as a people have been brutalised beyond belief the result of which is Hamas.
 
I object to any democracy that advocates the complete destruction of another nation.
Be that US, UK, Israeli or Palestinian. Democracy isn't the end point, it is the beginning.

The Bear.
 
Sankaku-
Consider this your warning. I will not tolerate inappropriate links on this forum.

If you have problems with this, I suggest you, ah hm, get over it and move on.
 
Everything because the same ideology and theology that drove the Taliban drives the ideology and theology of Hamas. Yes, many muslim women in western countries choose to wear the burka. It's their right, as it should be. However, under the Sha'ria, the law Hamas wishes to impose, that right to choose is taken away. You continue to advocate support for Hamas in the name of Palestinian human rights, rights that given a free hand, Hamas will deny Palestinians as well.





Not in the slightest. Just as I do not object to any gov't who refuses to do business with a democratically elected terrorist group on the grounds they advocate the destruction of another state, the extermination of that state's people, and systematic denial of human rights to it's own citizens.



Not hardly. I object to the ideology and correspondingly inseperable theology that drives the thoughts, words, and deeds of Hamas. You claim to object to the 'illegal occupation of Palestine" when what you really mean to say is you object to the existence of the state of Israel. Because when you defend Hamas, that's what you're defending. Hamas defines the 'illegal occupation' as every square inch of land owned by the state or citizens of Israel. By opposing the 'occupation' of Palestine, you're advocating the destruction of Israel. If you had bothered to read the 'piece of paper' you'd know that's what Hamas is fighting for and the only outcome they will accept.



Wrong again. Hamas is only the latest incarnation of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood which dates back to the late 1920's. The 'brutalization' of the Palestinians is a direct result of their participation in the Pan-Arab efforts to destroy Israel right from its inception, and their on-going, barbaric attacks against the Israeli civillian populace.
 
I find myself amazed that you even have to ask this.

Consider it a PG audience and go from there, blood guts and dead bodies are out.
 
I'm not. You're the one who said you opposed the "illegal occupation" of Palestine. You're the one who used the same phrase in the same context as Hamas. If you're going to say it, you should at least know what it means. When Hamas says they oppose the "illegal occupation" of Palestine, they mean they oppose the existence of Israel and the ownership of any land in Palestine by anyone other than a Muslim. If this is not what you mean to say; if this is not what you support, then maybe you should say what you do mean. Because what you said and the way you said it is that you agree with Hamas in that Israel should be pushed back into the sea.
 
again please dont attempt to put words into my mouth, i am quite capable of expressing myself clearly without your help. if you wish to engage in a dialogue with yourself thats fine
 
I don't need to put words in your mouth; you're quite capable of double-speaking your anti-Israeli views on your own. Besides, it's hard to stuff extra words in there with all that space being taken up by your foot. But you've had two posts now with an opportunity to clarify and express your desire to see the State of Israel continue to exist, and you've failed to capitalize on those opportunities. So here, I'll help you out (as I toss the softball); what exactly do you mean when you refer to the 'illegal occupation of Palestine'? I know what Hamas means; they mean all lands formerly controlled by Muslims and now in the hands of Israel. You say that's not what you mean, so what exactly are you referring to? The Gaza strip? The Golan Heights? What? Exactly which piece of real-estate are you claiming is 'illegally' occupied by the state of Israel?
 
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