Food safety .. ? Pros read please

[azurelupe7]

We've had food inspections several times (they're allowed to turn up unanounced) whereby they check that we have a probe and that we're using it and wiping it clean between uses. I had no idea it wasn't a legal requirment.

They're also allowed to ask for a sample meal to take it away to be analysed. Waiiiiiiiiit a moment, it's some chancers getting free grub!!!

 

[armonns]

ROTFLMAO!!!

Chimp - trust me... feed these guys well. They're the last people you want to be pissing off.

Seriously though - FEHD always show up unannounced. That's how they catch people out. People who aren't doing thing right. If you're operation is run soundly - then it's never a worry. But if you've got people doing idiotic things in the kitchen they'll usually not last very long. But - it's not going to be the FEHD that gets them... it will be some sadistic head or executive chef. Reputations follow you in the world of cooking and if you get a bad one - you can be relegated to the low end rather fast.

You don't want to know about the environment that Ngau Lam Min is made in.

 

[Nikonf5]

I don't care how ngau lam min is made, it can be done sans thermo probe and made with dirty chickens stuffed with with bacteria running around the kitchen. I want it and I want it now!!!

HEY NGAU LAM MIN GET IN MAH BELLEH!!!

 

[MandyN]

This is just unbelieveable, the HACCP tools aren't on Yahoo to give them merit. HACCP is on yahoo, google, Vista, so that it's easily available for SAFE FOOD SERVICE operations, and updates. As for Mass majority of kitchens do not probe...We'll why does your health inspector probe? Is your health inspector and idiot, so they carry around a stick probe or an Infra-Red Probe? Feed them well? So you say "Bribe them", in the USA, Health Inspectors are not permited to eat or recieve food from any restaurant they inspect. I don't know what the Health Permits of the UK require, but in the USA, you must maintain logs proving that you are following HACCP. What do you do incase of accidental poisoning? You stated that if a person is doing something crazy in the kitchen they normally don't last long? What documentation do you refer back to, you must have some health standard somewhere that your referring to you whe you fire this person for doing "something Crazy"

As for years of experience means nothing....Guess what, it doesn't. You as the owner are willing to put up your entire investment, the Reputation of your restaurant on the back of your CHEF, it only takes one lawsuit, to end everything? Stand behind the years of knowledge of one Chef in court....They will ask you to provide documentation that supports safe food handling. Bring your Chef in and have detail out the temperature of that item 60 days ago, that should be good enough for the jury to award a nice amount of money to the plantif ? For me My Chef says it was safe, I would be able to show actual documentation of heat of product exiting the oven, as the product left the kitchen, and if it was cooked in batch, the end temperature. And I would be able to have 5 years of data on hand to support our safe food handling was consistent and fully trained and documented, as well as 5 years of Documentation of annual training and Food Handler permits for every person who entered by kitchen.

I worked my way through my Master's Degree in Two jobs, one being the Food Safety Manager, CC, CDM,FSM for SKYCHEF(ARAMARK), serving over 2 million meals a year, national and international Flights, and ground operations. I worked with Commercial Chefs, Registered Dietitians, and Rabi's for Kosher kitchens.

I'm glad that your Restaurant is succesful, your state that you have strict Food Safety mechanisms in place....but you can't state what they are?

 

[kissmycatz]

HACCP Certification
You are here: UKAS / News / 2004 News articles / HACCP Certification

http://www.ukas.com/news/2004/HACCP_Certification_Feb04.asp

HACCP Certification – do we or don’t we accredit it?

The short answer to this question is Yes………..but.

The `but’ that arises from this question is that, before accreditation can be undertaken, UKAS requires that there is a `standard’ against which to certify. Having said that, there are standards available that incorporate HACCP principles and there are guidelines on how to apply the principles.

So, if there are standards and guidelines available can UKAS accredit certifiers for these? Not only can we accredit certifiers but we already do.

Certification bodies certifying management systems to ISO 9001 within the food industry can also be assessed and accredited under ISO Guide 62 for applying additional guidelines incorporating HACCP principles, such as BS ISO 15161:2001. ISO 9001 certificates issued by these certification bodies can legitimately include reference to HACCP.

Accreditation can also be granted to certification bodies for auditing against the British Retail Consortium Global Standard – Food, which sets out criteria for food manufacturing processes and incorporates HACCP principles. For this standard, certification bodies are accredited under ISO Guide 65, because food is the object of certification rather than the management system.

In the future there may be other standards, such as ISO 22000, that UKAS can consider for accreditation and the demand for accredited certification to such standards will be kept under review.

For further information contact: [email protected]

 

[intencexbeauty]

It could be a local legal requirment to have a probe under the councils food retailers licencing scheme.

My GFs kitchen was picked up on one ocasion for not having a seperate chopping board for raw meat preparation. The inspector was eventualy told to come back round and apologise for this.






You see it was a vegan restaraunt and the owner got his lawyers to write a complaint to the council. The law is that any raw meat has to be pepped on a separte board. Not that every single kitchen has to have both boards. The muppet had a poor understanding of English and he was a muppet obviously, Meat prep in a vegan kitchen?

 

[bobsayshi30]

umm... yeah no kidding.



err... hate to break it to you.... no our health inspectors do NOT probe.
There are many places that are NOT America... if you'd bothered to read my post you'd know that I'm NOT in America.



1) lighten up... 'feed them well' was a joke... tongue firmly in cheek.
Did you not see the smiley? That in general connotes just such a jest.

2) Again - I'm not in America.



If someone believes they got food poisoning then the onus is on them to prove that the got it from our food. Since we meet or exceed our standards for hygene then it's not really going to be much of an issue.


Again - you are under a misunderstanding... I am NOT in America... we have very different labor laws here... I have 3 month probationary periods allowed by law to can someone if they screw up. Three months in my line and I'm gonna have a damn good idea if you're clued up or not. One week in my line and I'll no whether or not to can you. Simple as that. Legal as that.

Labor laws in Hong Kong allow me wide discretion when it comes to firing people... yet I've rarely had to do it. Why? Becuase experience counts (as you're soon to discount later on in your post) so we have a very, very low staff turnover rate.



Wrong. Experience counts for everything in the culinary world. The backbone of any restaurant is the chef... even more so in smaller non-chain operations. That I have spent many years (that'd be the experience that you so readily discount) allows me to accurately make descisons based on that experience. I'll take hands on experience any day over culinary degrees. So will any chef worth his salt. There are far too many technocrats who get into the food business who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. We see them all the time here... they usually go out of business very soon. Given the choice... I'll go with experience every time.

As for the lawsuits... again hate to break it to you... but I'm NOT in lawsuit happy America. Seeing as how in six solid years of being well into the black on our books and a very solid customer base we have yet to have a single complaint about our food quality let alone food poisoning clues me in that we are doing something right.



Again - sorry but it doesn't work this way here. We do have records of our food temperatures and food handling procedures as required by our Food and Environmental Hygene Department. They do perfrom regular checks but they do NOT probe cooked food and they do NOT require us to do so. What is so hard about that for you to understand?!




I'm starting to get the feeling that you don't or haven't actually work as a chef. I've yet to see any line do that sort of temp checks on plates going out. Not in the big hotels, not in the restaurants around town.


Good I'm glad for you. All of which is very different than being a chef in Hong Kong. I'm glad you have your probes and your meters. I do however find it ironic that the majority of people I've ever heard of getting food poisoning has been from in-flight food.



err... I wasn't asked to explicity state what they are was I?

I think you need to realize that I am not bound by laws in the United States... so that'd be the first part of your misunderstanding.
Secondly I have stated several times that I am obliged to abide by the rules and safety precautions set forth by the Food and Envrionmental Hygene Department here in Hong Kong. I am sure you can easily find their site and see the requirements without any help from me if you are really that concerned.

BTW, thanks for the info on the accreditation. When they begin to require it here in Hong Kong then it will become an issue... until then. It's not.

 

[bdiskman]

As stated, as I worked through my Masters Degree I was in the food industry. I am not working in that industry now, but I know that the US system has not changed.

You are correct, over 20% of all Food Born Illness has been tied back to inflight meals, but not all inflight meals are originated from the US, nor are they supported through Aramark Sky Chef.

I don't understand the system in Hong Kong, but even you realize that the US is bullet laden with Law Suits. If you had a restaurant here, you might just look at my post as good information. You also would have to understand the position that I filled for ARA Sky Chef, Food Safety Manager, it all came back to my department it someone got sick.

I still to this day FREAK out when I see inappropriate handling of food. The US has had alone this year 7 Ecoli outbreaks. I'm actually happy not to be in the industry any longer, but that doesn't erase all the rules and regulations that I had to enforce inorder to stay compliant.

 

[Dudess]

I do look at what you posted as good info. It's just not the guidelines that we follow here. Though I'd imagine with the exception of required temp probing of all outgoing dishes that it's largely the same - excepting the considerations given for Chinese food - such as the allowance of wooden cutting boards. Something we don't use for even our Chinese cuisine.

I can't blame you for freaking out at the inappropriate handling of food. I won't tolerate it. But in my kitchen that doesn't translate into having to probe every outgoing dish. With the volume of food we do in our rush... I'd have to hire seperate staff to do it, record it and more kitchen space to get them out of the way of my chefs and sous chefs.

At any rate... don't feel as if what you've posted is lost on me. It's not - and I appreciate you taking the time to do so.