msfkndfkmdsgfagfgfhghg
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- Apr 13, 2008
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I agree; I'm vehemently anti-death penalty, but the guy who lived forgiving him doesn't mean that the families of the men who died forgive him.
Death row killer forgiven by shooting victim
- Thread starter AlexisInfectious®
- Start date
True, I just don't agree with killing purely for revenge. I understand it but I don't think its something that such a powerful and offical body as a state should encourage. Killing for threat prevention is a different matter and this guy does fit that since he was just gunning down people who looked arabic but he's not going to be getting out to do it again anyway and it was after he was seemingly traumatised by 9/11. Its depressing how violent people become when they're talking about convicts though. They say how bad these murderers etc are but in the same breath happily advocate killing them and are probably quite happy about all the pyshical and sexual violence in the prisons too as an extra dose of justice.
Winterlain
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- Apr 6, 2008
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Yeah, that's just a bit sick though, isn't it?
What's wrong with a simple lethal injection?
What's wrong with a simple lethal injection?
Fertbastian
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- Apr 16, 2008
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Removes the sense of superiority?
speed_freak91
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- Mar 30, 2008
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yeah i suppose it is but who's gonna want to commit the crime when thats what they have got to face, at least some people may think twice, it doesn't have to be televised because that is pretty sick. not knowing what happens is more scary than knowing
But why have it if you're going to shut it away? If you're not willing to watch it or do it yourself then don't advocate it.
Other than that its a cool idea
edit: Looking around the internet a couple of psychologists apparently proved that having the death penalty keeps murder rates the same or higher because state sponsored death puts across the idea that killing is fine as a way of "righting wrongs" and puts less value on human life making the people in the society more willing to kill each other. If that study was right then having a gladiator style deathmatch would probably make it worse.
Other than that its a cool idea
edit: Looking around the internet a couple of psychologists apparently proved that having the death penalty keeps murder rates the same or higher because state sponsored death puts across the idea that killing is fine as a way of "righting wrongs" and puts less value on human life making the people in the society more willing to kill each other. If that study was right then having a gladiator style deathmatch would probably make it worse.
Exactly the same people that commit crime now.
People that think they are going to get away with it (people that plan crime).
Or people that don't care if they get away with (people that commit crime through emotions at the time).
Either way I don't think there's a punishment in the world that will stop people committing crime.
The crime rate in Texas would seem to bear that out?
People that think they are going to get away with it (people that plan crime).
Or people that don't care if they get away with (people that commit crime through emotions at the time).
Either way I don't think there's a punishment in the world that will stop people committing crime.
The crime rate in Texas would seem to bear that out?
there are some good points made here, but if increasing severity of punishment wont decrease the crime rate what will certainly decreasing punishment wouldn't that would be stupid 
quoting southpaw: "Looking around the internet a couple of psychologists apparently proved that having the death penalty keeps murder rates the same or higher because state sponsored death puts across the idea that killing is fine as a way of "righting wrongs" and puts less value on human life making the people in the society more willing to kill each other. If that study was right then having a gladiator style deathmatch would probably make it worse."
i agree but in that case, the only thing is 100yr+ sentences life without parole no family visits shut them off from the world but keep them living - pretty much a living death, at the end of these sentences you could record them see if prisoners are remorseful and then convey positive feedback reports to people/places that need it or something on those lines. but in prisons if your in for life and are in circulation, you dont care what happens and can be "disruptive" hence why i would say solitary not even letting them see the guards!
quoting southpaw: "Looking around the internet a couple of psychologists apparently proved that having the death penalty keeps murder rates the same or higher because state sponsored death puts across the idea that killing is fine as a way of "righting wrongs" and puts less value on human life making the people in the society more willing to kill each other. If that study was right then having a gladiator style deathmatch would probably make it worse."
i agree but in that case, the only thing is 100yr+ sentences life without parole no family visits shut them off from the world but keep them living - pretty much a living death, at the end of these sentences you could record them see if prisoners are remorseful and then convey positive feedback reports to people/places that need it or something on those lines. but in prisons if your in for life and are in circulation, you dont care what happens and can be "disruptive" hence why i would say solitary not even letting them see the guards!
Life imprisonment seems to work pretty well in almost every other developed country. I remember a programe over here listing the amount of stuff prisoners make in America and how it helps the US compete with countries like China and Mexico that don't have the problems of minimum wage and whatnot. Maybe keeping death row alive might be more beneficial to the country in the long run than killing them?
The US does have whats called a "Supermax" prison in Marion Illinois where prisoners have ZERO contact with anyone and are confined to their cells except for 9 hours a week for exercise and showers.
Some of the cells are literally like the acryllic box in "Silence of the Lambs" where the prisoners are kept. In a couple of instances there is not even interaction with guards, instructions are given via speakers and food passed through a no-view slot. So some 'high level' prisoners are not only kept in solitary confinement, but out of view also.
Some terrorists, certain americans who spied for foreign governments, and other extremely dangerous criminals are held here where other prisons won't, or can't keep them for various reasons.
Some of the cells are literally like the acryllic box in "Silence of the Lambs" where the prisoners are kept. In a couple of instances there is not even interaction with guards, instructions are given via speakers and food passed through a no-view slot. So some 'high level' prisoners are not only kept in solitary confinement, but out of view also.
Some terrorists, certain americans who spied for foreign governments, and other extremely dangerous criminals are held here where other prisons won't, or can't keep them for various reasons.
kissthegirllxo
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- Mar 23, 2008
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So we're arguing against the death penalty because longterm imprisonment allows us to use western nations to compete with cheap foreign labour? Really?
I'm not sure that brutalising people works any better as a deterrant than killing them, as proved by the crime stats all over the world.
I love this argument that harsher penalties will stop people offending, given that America still executes people and some countries chop the hands off thieves. If it hasn't stopped the crimes, the punishment isn't working!
The obvious truth is that people don't think through all the logical ramifications of any potentially criminal act. Many are committed in anger or under stress for example.
The purpose of prison should be rehabilitation for most and incarceration for a tiny minority too genuinly dangerous to release; only by recognising that and equipping prisons to do it are we helping either society or offenders.
Mitch
I'm not sure that brutalising people works any better as a deterrant than killing them, as proved by the crime stats all over the world.
I love this argument that harsher penalties will stop people offending, given that America still executes people and some countries chop the hands off thieves. If it hasn't stopped the crimes, the punishment isn't working!
The obvious truth is that people don't think through all the logical ramifications of any potentially criminal act. Many are committed in anger or under stress for example.
The purpose of prison should be rehabilitation for most and incarceration for a tiny minority too genuinly dangerous to release; only by recognising that and equipping prisons to do it are we helping either society or offenders.
Mitch
thats a great point mitch, i suppose i wasnt thinking of the average criminal thats incarcerated, more serial killers and psychopaths or serial rapists or just rapists for that matter, i dont think a more serious/violent punishment would work either from everything thats been said, but a more severe punishment like longer sentences with stricter "rules" could be beneficial ie. now visitation rights for certain inmates etc.
melting_cheesecake
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- Apr 1, 2008
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QFT
Like to see us managing it though. It's very hard to prevent reoffending, and an effective program to do so will likely be giving criminals a leg up into proper society that their socio-economic peers* who kept their heads down and worked hard DON'T get. I can't see a way to run a rehab system without such inequity unless we effectively brainwash prisoners.
*Going with the assumption that most criminals/crime by volume is poorer people for whom crime is more attractive than the available work in some sense - although I am aware of the flaws in this.
Like to see us managing it though
. It's very hard to prevent reoffending, and an effective program to do so will likely be giving criminals a leg up into proper society that their socio-economic peers* who kept their heads down and worked hard DON'T get. I can't see a way to run a rehab system without such inequity unless we effectively brainwash prisoners. *Going with the assumption that most criminals/crime by volume is poorer people for whom crime is more attractive than the available work in some sense - although I am aware of the flaws in this.
ollyscat65
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- Apr 4, 2008
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Studies in Canada showed that after abolition there the murder rate decreased markedly and remained below the pre-abolition level for over 20 years.
Serious social inequalities, a culture that emphasises "might is right " (of which surely capital punsihment is an expression), an out of control drug problem, the laxest gun controls in the developed world and a shockingly poor detection rate are what drives murder rates in the US. If life is cheap then you've got nothing to lose. Fixing that would be far more beneficial than killing your own citizens.
Serious social inequalities, a culture that emphasises "might is right " (of which surely capital punsihment is an expression), an out of control drug problem, the laxest gun controls in the developed world and a shockingly poor detection rate are what drives murder rates in the US. If life is cheap then you've got nothing to lose. Fixing that would be far more beneficial than killing your own citizens.
lol with views like that heres a book you may enjoy called Might Is Right, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Might_is_Right
most famous for being a cornerstone influence on the philosophy of the church of satan, great stuff. HEY! here's another book you might enjoy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_kampf
most famous for being a cornerstone influence on the philosophy of the church of satan, great stuff. HEY! here's another book you might enjoy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_kampf
has anyone ever seen the movie or read the book papillon, about a french penal colony called devils island, a forced labour camp on an island in the Atlantic virtually impossible to escape from, it was essentially a gulag for enemy's of the french state. but in the story the two main characters after repeated attempts at escape the two men are taken out of the main prison and sent to a sort of free community, free as in no bars or guards but again on an island surrounded by sharks and rough sea. I think that is an interesting third way that could be looked at for the equivalent of lifers and people on death row, sort of isolated penal community's watched over by some sort of security force, with provisions provided on a regular bases by the state but essentially self run by the prisoners, it would navigate the moral debit of having to kill people but still remove them from society. the house of the dead by Dostoevsky about his experiences in an 18th century Russian gulag has similar themes, although set in a horrific forced labor camp full of people imprisoned simply for being enemy's of the state like devils island there are examples of a type of open prison community that although supervised by an armed force is pretty much self run by the prisoners and yet is located in a remote enough place as to make escape pointless and impossible. like I say I think its an interesting third way to the death penalty debate that's worth exploring.
skinny_imran
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- Mar 24, 2008
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in our current climate its not just survival of the fittest its survival of the richest (in darwinism they are 1 in the same), politics is hard to grasp especially human rights in crime and punishment because so many people have different views that overlap, contradict, and disagree with each other. but if we went the darwinism route things like nazism would be acceptable. we as humans are have compassion hence why we protect 1 another but we also have animal instincts hence why some people hurt each other we cant leave people behind because that would be more destructive than progressive!
Kinda. Cheap labour isn't a reason I oppose the death penalty personally but I thought it might help convince supporters there's other things you can do with these people. Probably would of been better for me to point out better, more moral reasons but if the end results the same I don't care what arguement's used.