Women in the Infantry

[Kurylovich]

There's a huge difference between being in the same building at French Creek than there is is living out in the field on LeJeune or 29....let alone actually being in the field in a combat zone such as the Upper Sangin Valley (one of the places used in the article). On a side note...are you saying females are also on the same floor in barracks now in addition to the same buildings? If so, I'm glad I don't have to do barracks duty anymore!

[Mikkie]

Deleted, dbl post.

[Anniesgran]

I don't quite know how the barracks situation works on the POG side of Lejeune other then that they share the same barracks. Whether it's separated by floors or odds/evens I couldn't tell you. I did do a 9 mile ruck from the infantry barracks to beyond French Creek during night on PT road and beyond and watched a female marine walk from one room into the next, which was occupied by a few males. She shut the door behind her, peeked out the window for a few seconds and then closed the curtains. Don't know if she lived right next to them or she was just "visiting" that entire side of the barracks, but they definitely room in the same building.

Introducing females into infantry barracks would be HORRIBLE for unit cohesion now that I think about it. I have so many stories I could tell. For those of you not familiar . . . . . . waking up at 5:30 in the morning and taking a few swigs of Jack Daniels is some people's normal morning routine. I've seen people urinate off balconies onto delivery people (on accident), jump off two and three story balconies for an "adrenaline rush," walk around naked, dress up and do things that would make you think arguing about homosexuality in the military is really an invalid debate . . . . and these are all NORMAL things. These activities are definitely not as common on the non-infantry side. It would definitely cause harm to unit cohesion if females introduction changed the way people had to live on the infantry side (which is already extremely sub standard and stressful). But then again . . . . is this legit male/female gender roles and natural behaviors, or what we accept and follow as social norms developed over many years.

As soon as I read she had been in Sangin building PB's I had respect for her. I remember having a discussion about a past MEU I had been on (unit I was in is scheduled for one on their next deployment) and people were trying to make it sound like it wasn't too bad. I told all the boots (not boots anymore being we had just come back from Afghanistan) that I would rather have done the initial push through Sangin then do a freaking MEU again. Definitely got some "wow" stares to that. MEUs suck worse then walking through an IED valley in my opinion. If you were in Sangin, much respect to you whether you're male or female.

[Lemonade]

I think his points are valid and would definitely bring a form of evidence for the problems integration would cause, but I also think that because of the way we have gender roles ingrained in us that the problems for unit cohesion (which is incredibly important) would be affected. Which brings me back to my opinion in my original post and something you touched on, that it is US as people, rather then just males and females individually and what they are capable of. I still think the ability to endure and the possibility of physical break down between males and females is something that should be looked into but that's not speaking to women's ability to serve in a combat situation. It's a very 'cost to the individual and institution' scenario she brings up which is very different from anything I've been exposed to with the debate.

If it were to be found that females are capable of doing a job, but are much more likely to be stopped in a much shorter time frame medically due to the physical nature of the job, would that be justification to not allow people of a certain sex to partake in that job? I think the answer lies with what tax payers are willing to pay out rather then an ethical/moral debate on male and female ability to be honest.

[ninja_master250]

Sorry for the lack of clarity with that response. I'll attempt to rectify.

- I feel the poster claiming Captain Petronio 'should be punched in the face' for blaming her issues on her gender is misguided. Petrionio was an engineer that regularly travelled one of the most dangerous roads in the world, Rte 611, to help provide a bare hill with a few trucks with some generators, tents, covered areas to go to the bathroom, and some limited security defenses. Furthermore, I believe she said she was involved with the FET...which do really important work in dangerous areas. Petriono has been more involved in combat than most male Marines. She isn't scarred from the experience. She just noticed a very distinct difference in how well she was able to hold up in that environment vice others around her. She makes several points about her being physically superior to most female Marines...and likely superior to some males as well. While actually being in that environment. And while she had more direct combat experience than most Marines...male or female...she certainly was not humping a ruck a heavy ruck on 3-5 day long patrols. Anyway, I just feel the bashing of Captain Petrionio's service, and honest opinion based on experience and factual data (albeit limited due to the infancy of the data pool), is unnecessarily antagonistic.

[ryanealexander12]

why am I double posting so much?!

[jalford12]

I will address this though. Firstly, you wont be thrust into combat and suddenly find yourself looking for cover next to a female. They're going to be in your unit from day one, through combat and downtime alike. During downtime you get the chance to build relationships and if that relationship happens to turn romantic - which absolutely CAN happen, do you really and honestly expect me to believe you're NOT going to go to additional lengths, take additional risks to save the woman you love? That puts others at risk. It's an issue. One I'm no where near capable of solving but it IS an issue.

Secondly, that wasn't atagonistic at all. Its a statement toward mindset which still exists today. I find nothing offensive about it as its simply fact. But if you want to find that offensive then you should also be offended when someone opens a door for a woman or offers to let them enter a building first... It's a fact, an inarguable fact, that some folk are still taught to be gentlemen in the old fashioned sense and that upbringing is hard to toss aside. Again, if thats offensive or antagonistic then either you need to make sure you understand what those words mean or the world has taken a HUGE turn for the worse since I last looked around.

Dont bother responding to me, as I wont address you on the topic again.

Cheers!

[QUEttt]

Sometimes its not what you say but how you say it. He just rubbed me wrong. Took his tone as, to use his word, antagonistic, and I just dont have time for that.

[bourbonixecom]

Man afuss, you're double post king in this thread.

[jorgeh]

C'mon man, relax a little. This thread definitely needs an understanding that VERY touchy issues on gender roles in the military and their capabilities, as well as how veterans are discussed amongst each other and with others who are not. I've already been ticked off by a couple posts but responded the best way I could, let the ToS guide you sir.

I am confident that there will be many "Lets agree to disagree" statements and discussions, but I don't like dismissal of somebody just because you don't agree. I've had plenty of people I hated in my short lifetime that I could have wanted to spit in their face one second, and then gone out to have a beer with them the next because life is just too short and not as complicated as we make it to be to treat people with contempt. Decisions that cost peoples lives and welfare aren't being made in this thread, so I can't justify getting truly hateful towards somebody for having an opinion. When it comes down to it it's just discussion, and I think it's doing pretty well to show different points of view as far as the thread is going so far.