"Consent" in pornography: an analogy with combat sports

[CherryCheri]

This is something I've been thinking about recently; I wonder what your take is.

Many people object to pornography on the basis that it exploits women. When it is pointed out that most of the women in porn consent to be in it and many say that they actually enjoy it, the argument then becomes about finding some way to invalidate their consent and suggest that they must be messed up and incapable of making their own decisions. After all, no sane woman would want to put herself through that, right?

But this strikes me as a bit of a double-standard when you consider our attitude towards male-dominated combat sports. Most guys would not want to get into the cage and batter each other into oblivion for five consecutive rounds, yet clearly some do and we are happy to accept "well, they consented to it" as justification. Although offtopic is certainly not to everyone's taste, you don't see people claiming that the fighters have merely been "brainwashed" into liking violence.

I would argue that we assume at the back of our minds that male offtopic fighters know what they're doing simply because they are men, whereas we instinctively want to wrap women in cotton wool, which is quite patronising.

[blondiechicknz]

I don't have anything constructive to add, but this line



I have seen applied to offtopic fighters that are female. I have absolutely no idea if that's relevant.

[on_the_bb]

I forget where I read it, but the point was made somewhere that there are two types of women who are involved in porn. Women who really like sex and women who have experienced some form of abuse that has warped their relationship with sex. I don't necessarily think it's as black and white as that, but there is some truth there, I'm sure.

Also - why doesn't porn also exploit men? They don't get paid as well as women (where are the equal pay brigade when you need 'em eh?).


I don't think the comparison is justified, since men who choose to participate in combat sports are not shamed to anything like the extent that women involved in the sex industry are. Women in porn are effectively selling their dignity as much as they are selling their bodies. The same cannot be said for men participating in combat sports.

[PamperedePixie]

I would make the following counterpoints:

1. Combat sport athletes are not sacrificing their dignity, but they are putting their health on the line, e.g. Muhaofftopicd Ali, which to my mind makes the decision to participate in it a comparable one.

2. Speaking as someone of a liberal persuasion, I would argue that the only reason they're "selling their dignity" is because of the very outmoded, quasi-religious ideas about gender roles that we're all supposed to be against. So if people didn't have such a problem with porn then there would be no "loss of dignity" in the first place.

[ClaudiaL]

why is the comparison between men who fight and woman who star in porn, do male pornographic actor's not fit the bill for all these things being attributed to women.

EDIT: as for the comparison its self its dumb, the only people who would say it with conviction do not understand combat sports or really even pornography. Does it require anymore dissection than that ?

[cocoon]

There is another major distinction to be made, I feel.

Being a professional fighter requires training and dedication. You can't just grab some muscular guy from an impoverished neighbourhood and throw him into a cage. The notion that you need to make sacrifices to get to a professional level gets several kinds of abuse out of question (although more subtle ones like pressure from parents may remain).

In contrast, to make porn you just need to have a nice body. You don't even have to pretend you enjoy it.

Still, the notion that "no same woman would go through that" is stupid. Adults are free and welcome to do what they want with their sexual lives. In the spectrum of human interests there is more than enough room for women who simply enjoy producing pornography without being damaged in any way. However, it's undeniable that a big fraction of women in the porn industry aren't there out of their own interest, and the underlying issues must be fixed (or those responsible prosecuted) as with all forms of abuse.

[nicole_b_moore]

I make the comparison because, while there certainly are male pornographic actors, there is less demand for them and they make less money, which is kind of the opposite of the situation in the porn industry. Therefore, if we assume, for the sake of argument, that porn is about exploitation of women because it primarily focuses on women (though I agree with you that it's kind of flimsy), then that same argument can be flipped on its head when we look at combat sports.



To be clear, are you saying my point is dumb or that theirs is?

[habibhavivj]

How does that impact on the issue of consent?



As an aside, I'm not sure the bit in bold is true of most mainstream, legal porn.

[gtarczar]

Many people objectify to porn because it objectifies; exploitation in the porn industry is a problem but I wouldn't say that its the most popular criticism... especially nowadays.

I think there are very different dynamics in terms of money and power with regards to the motivations of your average amatuer (and even professional) offtopic fighter and the motivations of most -female- porn actresses.

[doublen420]

I'm saying the analogy is dumb.