SPLIT: Swastikas

[Maurog]

And that kind of attitude is good? Beating someone up because they wear a swastika and may or may not be a neo-Nazi? That's Nazi behaviour in itself, only they attacked communists and Jews.

One of my grandfathers died in the war but this doesn't mean I want to go punching folk if they wear a swastika, because it's none of my business, and doing so would make me a thug, just like the members of the SA.

[RobertoC]

Thats just naive, German swastikas are incredibley disrespectful and most certainly still do have racist connotations. Far right groups are not as few and far between as you think, there tends to be at least one in every country.

Just because it doesn't directly affect you you think its not such a bad thing. Typical. If you had lost a friend or relative in 9/11 wouldn't you be offended if you saw someone wearing a T-shirt saying '9/11 rocked' or 'i love al-quaida' or something?

Don't forget they were allied with Germany, so no wonder they don't care about swastikas like europeans or americans do. I bet if you wore something like 'Hiroshima was the best thing since sliced bread' or 'Nagasaki sucks since we bombed it' in Japan you'd get some abuse.

[d3v_t4y]

dont remember saying I would be the one doing it. I would leave that to the Ray Sefo lookalike down at the bus stop. fact is that it is hugely disrespectful especially to people who were in the war. Nazi germany was no laughing matter, and even if you did like the design I think its sad if you would wear one despite how much it would offend some people.

[DonaldB]

I think people overreact to stuff these days, any excuse to moan and argue about something. People need to grow up and stop worrying so much about what other people believe/wear/do. So what if someone else is a Nazi, or a conservative/liberal/monster raving loony, or was happy about 9/11 or Iraq, or is a Muslim or Satanist or whatever, that's their business, as long as they don't harm anyone.

[chellb]

Im all for freedom of speech etc but there are some things that simply cross the line. there are people walking around today who were in the war, who lost friends and family to people wearing swastikas. to see some punk wandering around with a swastika on their shirt... I cant imagine the kind of feelings that would stir up.

[chuckimagine]

Anyone who has no respect for the feelings of people around them or at the least of the people who died for them, and violates that respect over something as small as an 'individuality statement' or whatever is a selfish beep and deserves whats coming to them.

Whats more, by wearing something like that you associate yourself with the ideology or statement that the symbol belongs to. Do you really want that? if the answer is yes, then once again you deserve whats coming to you. If may be their business but waving it in my face is my business too.



The point is Nazi's and other such groups have and do harm people.

[bushboy2347]

Just look at what you typed. You're wishing violence or abuse upon someone for what they may or may not believe in, over a symbol? Like I said, the SA saw fit to attack communists simply for being communists, now you may say "communists are less disrespectful than neo-Nazis" but this is besides the point.

Certain people I know see fit to jeer at Muslims garbed in full dress in public, now I disagree with this, I assume you probably do too, but to these people, they have a valid reason to shout abuse, given the recent events. My point is whether or not someone wears something that offends people, they should have the right to go without harm. No point lowering yourself to whatever level the other guy is at.

Seeing someone donning a Swastika, you have no idea if they are trying to offend, are ignorant of history like many in Japan, or just think it's a cool-looking symbol. Perhaps they think the Nazi regime was impressive, or worth reminding people of, maybe they think Hitler had some good ideas and some bad ones, who knows? Yes chances are they are either ignorant or just attention-seeking, but still, I maintain that if they leave you alone you should leave them alone.

I suppose there is an issue of whether donning an image that offends people is 'harming' them in itself. I just personally believe everyone can find something more productive to do than worry or complain about other people's beliefs, offensive or not.

[EmilyF]

I frankly don't care if Nazi's, racists, murderers or whatever get subjected to abuse or a few beatings, otherwise they'd never learn. I feel its the general publics duty to inform such people they are being idiots and should change their ways.

Notice i said minor violence, not genocide or other such mass murders, so im not quite at their level yet.

Your twisting it completely with the Muslim example. A Muslim is not necessarily going to be violent, infact most probabley isn't. Whereas a nazi is, the ideology is to kill people. A muslim will probabley not agree with 9/11, whereas a nazi wouldn't be a nazi if they didnt agree with both the war and the genocide.



Peoples beliefs are so important i can't believe you suggested we ignore them. The whole 'war on terror' or whatever rhetoric you want to call it is a clash of beliefs. People die every day because of dangerous beliefs. World War II happened because people didn't 'worry or complain' about the nazi ideology that was taking over the German nation (not enough anyway).

[coppercash]

The Nazi regime was not just about racial genocide you know. Labelling them as evil is counter-productive I think. If we realise that there were valid reasons for Germany voting them into power, then we can understand why things happened, and learn from their mistakes better. It's never a good idea to just de-humanise something and shove it as far away from you as possible, like people used to do about serial killers, child molesters etc. Some people just refused to believe a human would be capable of such things which got in the way of investigations. Better to study why they do the things they do like psychologists, instead of just calling them evil.

Like I said, spitting bile and lowering yourself to their level won't get anyone anywhere. If someone walks past you wearing a nazi symbol, what's the better thing to do, ignore them and get on with your business or hurl abuse at them, knowing nothing about them?

The Muslim thing was just an example of how things are only 'offensive' if the viewer finds them so. The Muslim girl in the full gown and face covering has not done it to offend, yet some people may be offended, this doesn't give them the right to abuse or harass. I disagree with any organised religion but I don't take objection to people wearing religious garments. Likewise I disagree with the Nazi regime but don't take objection to the Swastika.

Besides, if the person actually does think he's a Nazi, a reaction to his dress would probably make him happier than just being ignored.

[takethehighway]

Maverick,

My original post (if you read it at all) was showing examples of a clothing company that had taken Nazi regalia (including the swastika in it's Nazi incarnation) and Nazi propaganda films to promote their line of clothing. As well I mentioned that often kids in Hong Kong are ignorant of history and thus think that it is cool to run around wearing Swastikas - usually artwork on t-shirts taken off Nazi youth camp materials.

It is NOT a post somehow saying the swastika in and of itself is bad. I went further to explain this by example in the subsequent text... if you'd had bothered to read that. I gave examples of some of the other usages of it as well.

The clothing company Izzue either tried to decontextualize the swastika from the Nazi party or they were completely ignorant of the symbolism and associations that many people have with that symbol (the Nazi swastika) in the context they showed it. The context in which they used it... with all it's military and historical relativity (Third Reich flags, olive drab military gear, Stormtroopers etc.) was directly related to Nazi Germany. So it appears they didn't try to decontextualize it all. They knew full well it's associations... and chose to use it anyhow to make a buck.

While some of us (apparently not the genius at Izzue) understand why using a symbol such as that to flog clothing is reprehensable and incredibley insensative - some people don't get it. It's my feeling that those people lack an understanding of the gravity of using symbols like that to promote commerce. It shows a massive insesativity to many people who are still living that suffered heavily under the Nazi regime.

You appear to a philosophy that is akin to burying your head in the sand. Ironically it's an exact duplicate of what many Jews and others in 1930's Germany thought and it's part of the reason they ended up almost being wiped out by genocide. Everyone did exactly as you suggest 'minding their own business'... next thing you know they were being lined up to hop into the ovens or to be worked to death.


You come off as either incredibley naive verging on completely daft in respect to why people would be offended by the Nazi swastika... or as an apologist for the Nazi regime and completely ignorant of how Nazi symbolism is relative to peoples feelings.

Needless to say it doesn't wash.



PUHHHLLEEEEEZZZEEE!!!

It was one of the central pillars of their policies and the instrument that they used to stoke up hatred and build support their cause. It is an iseperable element of the Nazi regime.

Their is no need to dehumanize the Nazi party... one simply has to look at their policies and the results of those policies.... it's fairly clear what they were on about.

Your about up to your knee at the moment... care to stuff your foot any further into your mouth?