SPLIT: Swastikas

[KayB]

Only I'm not so sure that part of what you originally stated is correct:

Technically speaking what you're referring to is the [b]Sauwastika/b].

I haven't seen any actual reference that gives conclusive evidence or any evidence otherwise that it pre-dates the swastika.

Though obviously it pre-dates the Nazi swastika.

Though if you have any information to support that claim... some of us are interested.

[blue_teen_queen]

If you look at a Japanese map you will see manji used very often, it is used to denote a Buddhist temple. We used the manji for many years as we are a Buddhist art, but have recently moved away from it because of the lack of understanding of its meaning and the confusion with the Nazi image in the west. It is a little sad for me as I liked manji, but I can understand how it could reignite traumatic memories in people that had suffered under the Nazi’s, therefore it is probably better to try and express its meaning in another way. Our new symbol does this with its interconnecting rings.

Picture of manji at the following address.
http://www.shorinji-kempo.org/articles/manji/img/omote_manji.gif

Picture of new symbol at the following address.
http://www.ozaki-sk.co.jp/goods/img/goods02/goods02_ph03.jpg

[SanitS]

symbols are symbols, if they are causing harm (pain) then maybe we can find new symbols as buddhists hehe to not cause suffering others.

or, we can educate our children and help to teach that it has two histories. one hellish and one beutiful, it is very tao is it not? dark and light hehe.

however, if we continue to be ignorant in our classrooms or homes about the symbol, it will remain to be glorified by neo-nazis and misused by rascists.

eventually the ww2 survivors will pass on and maybe it will become less stigmatic.

for instance, lets say people were marked for the black plague or as witches in pre-modern europe. we do not still live in fear of these symbols if they exhisted. i mean, symbols come and go... the ones who should hold it are the eastern religious while the ones to remove it should be the neo-nazis.

seriously, it needs to be talked about, educated on and shown on both sides. take this scenerio.

the christian cross, is used as a religious symbol. however it has caused much suffering (the cross was used for crucifixing people), however today it does not cause mass hystaria when viewed in public for those reasons.

on the other hand, some radicals (kkk) burned crosses and did much harm to minorities in america. therefore, should we ban crosses because a small group used it as a symbol for their hate crimes?

no! educate people on the subject, help make them enlightened individuals that can think and show that it is not just a nazi symbol.

in fact, this thread is going to make me teach it in my class alongside my ww2 teachings on nazi. when i'm a history teacher someday i will show them how it is used and viewed in other parts of the world

whats worse, us upset over nazi symbols or them upset over us buying child labor products? lol

[JonathanA]

Not everyone is Buddhist mr.jroe and as a Buddhist you should know that expecting everyone else to behave in a certain way is a rather fruitless endeavour.
The Nazi swastika symbol has one history and its not very beautiful... You see as addressed by slip earlier the issue here is not over the use of the generic swastika symbol but of the use of the specific symbol used by the Nazi's and remeber its been displayed alongside various Nazi paraphenilia just in case there was any any doubt that it was Nazi specific.
Again no-one has disputed that the symbol itself is neutral but I don't think teaching children about how it is used in India and has been used in East Asia will stop neo-nazi's and racists from using the symbol as it was intended by Hitler. Do you know of any other cultures where the swastika is presented as a black symbol on a white circle with a red background? That I am afraid is a symbol specific to Nazism.
jroe this highlights the same process and the same problem, a well known religious symbol is altered so that it comes to represent something entirely different. Should the original symbol be banned? Nope... Does this mean people should go around wearing shirts with a burning cross and KKK written across the top? Nope... You see the symbol of a burning cross has (at least in Western cultures) become emblematic of the Ku Klux Klan its become a seperate symbol from the cross now so to find it offensive does not mean you are incapable of looking at any crosses it just means the particular symbol of that particular group you find repugnant.

Whose 'us' and whose 'them'?

[vandelinderrpm]

oh, i think using the nazi logo is wrong, but wearing swatstikas is not (if not for nazi/rascist) reasons.

what i meant is... the chinese stores that sell exact nazi flags are being ignorant, but having statues with religious symbols on them is not.

i think most mappers agree to that, its the general public that lives in hysteria hehe

[BryanR]

again the two look different.. and a symbol is a, *symbol* becasue it means something.

[clucky36]

some do not look different.

there is swastika (clockwise) and sauvastika (counter clockwise). however hindus and buddhists do use swastikas wiether on angles or in non-angle form... it can look like the nazi logo, however it usually does not include an angry german or a flag with red coloring, eagles and black stripes.

[Annihilator1986]

This is absolutely right. There is a distinction there and the two should be viewed separately.

[FrancesM]

I have just cut and pasted this from an article on the Swedish Shorinji Kempo site. The article uses some kanji that doesn't show here, and refers to pictures that are not shown here. If it looks interesting to you, you can find the original article at this address http://www.shorinji-kempo.org/ . just go to the English page, click on articles in the menu on the right side of the page, and then click on the meaning of manji. It is a shame that a symbol so old and meaningful could have been corrupted in so few years by one ideology. In a perfect world everyone would be educated to others cultures, but we don't live in a perfect world. While manji should be viewed separately to the Nazi symbol, the reality is that many people just don't know the difference and the memory of the Nazi’s is still very vivid.

What are the meaning of the manji and how is it used.

In the East, manji () are often used to represent Buddhist temples on maps (se picture below), and it is commonly understood as a symbol for Buddhism. The symbol itself, however, is older than Buddhism, and it possesses profound meaning.

The manji represents the fluidity of the universe and the foundation of life. The opposites which organize our thoughts - heaven and earth, day and night, positive and negative, male and female, south and north, summer and winter, fire and water, and many others - stand in apparent opposition. Yet each maintains its own distinct nature while finding harmonious relations with its opposite. The shape of the manji reflects this. The perpendicular line symbolically connects heaven and earth, while the horizontal line unites lightness and darkness. The two combined to form a cross represent the universe in harmony beyond the limits of time and space, and from which comes the power that creates and nurtures all things. The trailing lines of the cross represent the wisdom that the universe and all things in it change constantly, never reaching a stage of permanence.

After extensive practice, one may awaken to the fact that one is a vital part of the flow and change of the universe, and discover deep value and significance in living. This provides one with an immovably peaceful state of mind known in Zen as satori. It comes through union with the foundation of the universe. When a person reaches satori, or enlightenment, the interrelations which manji represents can be seen as complete, and the manji becomes a circle.

The omote (front side) manji () represents infinite mercy, or the love in Dharma which permeates the universe and nurtures all things. The ura (back side) manji () represents intellect and strength. The Chinese are said to have derived their symbol for strength () from the ura manji (). Although omote manji and ura manji are customarily used side by side in Buddhism, the manji worn on Shorinjikempo dogi (uniform), in Japan and many foreign countries, is set as the omote manji. In many dojo it is also common to have a kakejiku (hanging scroll) with a calligraphy made by Kaiso with a manji followed by dharma written in sanskrit (se picture to the left).

The spirit of caring for others as well as oneself is shown by the original teachings of Buddha. This path can be followed by using the intellect and strength symbolized by the ura manji to develop oneself into a person who can be relied on, and who can serve humankind as an expression of the mercy and love represented by the omote manji.

The manji symbolizes the spirit of riki ai funi.
The harmony of opposites symbolized in the manji includes the harmony of intellect with mercy, and strength with love. This harmony lies at the heart of Kongo Zen's principle of riki ai funi, a principle which also gives guidance to us in how we are meant to practice and to use the techniques of Shorinji Kempo. Understanding the truths represented by the manji are vital to understanding the heart of Kongo Zen.

From ancient Sanskrit.
The manji was originally a Sanskrit symbol meaning "whirlwind", "good fortune", "foundation of life", and "everchanging universe". After the death of Buddha, it was engraved on stone footprints marking places where he was supposed to have stood and on these footprints one often find manji.

Additionally the manji can also be seen on statues of Buddha as on the picture below.

Statue of Buddha with a manji on the chest. © www.buddhistsupplies.com.

Its use in the West.
The manji was also used in the West as a symbol of good fortune. In its religious usage it referred to the four L's: Light, Life, Love, and Liberty.