Taking "God" out of the Holidays

[karen_03625]

Meg, I read the article you just linked to, and frankly, I'm flabbergasted by the attitude of some of those Denver folks.

First of all, I fail to see how celebrating one religious tradition implies any disrespect whatsoever to other traditions. That's just absurd. I'm not the least bit offended by seeing displays related to other religions, either in parades, or on public or private property (as a matter of fact, I enjoy learning about other peoples' traditions); am I that unusual?

The parade spokesman appears to imply that the parade is supposed to have nothing to do with Christmas -- but then, why include Santa Claus, who is associated with Christmas in this country? I have a hard time believing that this parade has never been about Christmas, and was always just a "parade of lights" -- I wouldn't be surprised if, many years ago, it was actually called a Christmas parade.

I'm familiar with the pagan origins of the December 25th date, but it isn't the date that we celebrate, it's the birth of Jesus. Incidentally, I think that refusing to teach evolution in the schools (in order to "avoid controversy") is just as ludicrous as pretending that Christmas isn't about Christ.

[BennyC]

Yoda,

I did know that. I never claimed that Christmas was the actual day of Jesus' birth.

I also heard that because the winter festivals were similar to mardi gras and people were getting lit and acting like crazy fools the church wanted to clean up the season, so to speak, so they made the 25th the official day, in hopes that people would treat it with respect and reverance. I don't know if this is true, but I thought it was kind of funny.

Are you offended by Christmas Yoda?

[LineN]

KT,
I do not think you are unusual. That is why I wanted to post this. I need to know if this is really how the majority in this country feel or if, as usual, the minority is simply louder then the rest of us sane people. Now, Now I am just kidding, don't anyone get offended.

Thanx for the article CocohnutJoe.

[ChelsieH]

you actually think christmas has anything to do with jesus anymore to most people? we celebrate it because it is a time to give and recieve presents, get the whole family together, take a break at the end of a year etc. more people associate christmas with santa than jesus. things change.

[nasty_mcdirty]

You say that like it's a good thing. Sad.

[yoooo]

Not at all - I LOVE Xmas

I have no problem with Christians celebrating the birth of Jesus at this time -as long as they are happy with me celebrating the season without a religeous reference.

[BattleAngel]

Well, I work for the government so let me shed some of my light on the subject. First: most gov't employees have beliefs based on Judeo-Christianity, so they find most of our rules stupid as well. Second: its primarily a CYA thing (cover your butt). Here's some examples from our area-

1- In our City Council chambers, we wanted a small (like 24 x 24 inches) plaque that said "In God We Trust." This created a huge stink, even though it reflected the majority, its on the dollar bill, etc etc. So that project sunk.

2 - Los Angeles county was sued for having a cross in their seal, which was used to represent the spanish missions and their historical significance to the development of California. unfortunately it was a religious symbol as well (obviously) so the ACLU sued em and the seal was changed.

3 - We have this really big cross in san diego on a little hill called Mount Soledad. The City was paying for the landscaping around it and such, which caught some atheist's attention. So the City was forced to sell the land for a dollar to a private organization, and the maintenance has not been as up to par as before, when the City was in charge of maint/repair work.


See the problem is when you use the phrase "public funds." We used to give days off with pay for our employees of the year, but we were essentially giving a gift of public funds so we stopped that and requested vendor gifts (which they HATE!). Public funds is why the parade couldn't have any religious symbols; the cops were providing protection and the City was handling traffic control, and an athiest doesn't want his/her tax dollars going towards "protection" of a religious icon.

So the bottom line is that the cities dont want to get sued by the ACLU like Los Angeles County did. Cities are really hurting for money right now and lawsuits can cost 5% of the total city operating budgets, which would kill fire and police protection.

[normalguy]

now why should there be anything about god or jesus in the holidays? its not like we celebrate christmas because its one of their birthdays or whatever. christmas is the time of year when you can come to gether with family and remember the birth of santa claus. (by the way that was sarcasm)
its kinda stupid to try and take god out of the holidays. its all those athiest that want all the good stuff but don't want to give god credit for it.

JESUS KICKS SANTA'S @$$!!

Ian Nottingham

[FaneeshiaV]

That makes sense, although it is a shame that cities have to make their policies based on the whims of the ACLU -- an organization that is far from unbiased.

I'm wondering how this scenario plays out in small towns, where the money to put on the parade may come from fundraisers, and not from public funds.

I still have trouble understanding why people are so offended by any demonstration of religious belief, even when all faiths are given "equal time", so to speak. Saying "this is my belief" is not the same as saying "your belief is wrong" or "you have to share my belief", at least not in this country. Is this so hard to understand?

[sandagal]

If you read back through the thread you'll see Yoda has already highlighted the fact that most of traditions associated with christmas predate the christian religion.