Is karate still an effective way of defending oneself or now an outdated concept?

[shadow]

From my experience, martial arts work only in fights where the other guy is using martial arts.

True self defense means doing what it takes to survive, fighting dirty if need be. Karate doesn't teach that, though I wouldn't say it's an outdated concept since the discipline and state of mind learned from Karate training has it's place in today's world.

[TristonTKD]

All Martial arts are good on the streets... but if your in it PURELY for Self Defense go with Krav Maga it is defently the best.... MMA is better for 1v1 no weapon situation but if u put 2 or 3 guys with knifes Krav Maga FTW.

also TKD is alright if u keep the attacker at a distance.

[ObamaRuinsAmerica]

i just carry a sig p239

[Lorenzo]

hello,

no matter the system, "defending oneself" involves a relationship between to mechanical agents.

sounds weird, neh?

it is, if you are trying to think of some system as the thing that is defending you.

let's back up a bit. what is a mechanical agent? glad you asked!

mechanical agent is a machine that can act within or upon it's environment (including other mechanical agents).

the human machine generally has the same arrangement of bones and joints as every other, so really, they all move roughly the same way. these mechanical agents are constructed in similar manner, so as to facilitate a finite number of possible interactions.

that said, a martial art system, rather than being the thing that defends the mechanical agent, is a method (framework of rules) in which the mechanical agent may explore interactive relationships with other mechanical agents.

there is nothing esoteric about this concept. karate, judo, arnis, savate, boxing, wing chun, tai chi... all of these are utilized by mechanical agents (human machines) that are constructed to move in similar manner with similar limitations.

a punch is a punch, not matter what you call it, or what rules framework you developed it in. a throw is a throw, etc etc...

the point is, only a training method (rules framework) can become obsolete.

back to karate. the outdated concept at work in this system/rules framework is the notion of relying on kata. kata are prearranged sequences of movements intended to simulate certain physical interactions.

kata are not USELESS, but relying on them as the primary training method IS USELESS.

when one mechanical agent engages another, for whatever reason, the situation is dynamic. nothing is prearranged. under certain circumstances, prearranged sequences can be a disaster.

kyokushin and seido sought to "fix" this by making a majority of their training involve live sparring. this is a step in the right direction, but due to a rules anomaly in competition, sparring became useless.

kyokushin competition disallows punching to the face and head. as time went on, players tend to stand directly in front on one another, hands low, raining blows to the midsection. hands are low (not blocking head punches) and inevitably, a kick knocks one of the players out.

this is unacceptable in self defense.

does this mean karate is useless in self defense? no. it means that EMPLOYING the mechanical agent (human machine) in a manner consistent with the system of karate (kata or flawed competition rules) is impractical for self defense.

if you have interest in karate, do for it. it's fun, it's hard and it's rewarding.

thanks

[thebeehive06]

Karate is outdated, but it's still a good base point to start. It's just one dimension you need in self defense though. For most of my life, I have been able to fight pretty well using basics of Karate against your average street brawler. However, as more and more people get into Mixed Martial Arts, Karate isn't enough. I personally think Krav alone isn't an effective way to defend yourself either though.

Remember this formula:
Mixed Martial Arts > Single Martial Art
The more you know, the better

[Chopsticks]

Many instructors have managed to ruin, water down and commercialize Karate and other martial arts. How have they managed to do this? Some by thinking that they can open a dojo within 5 to 7 years of practice, and I don't care what decade or century you're in. To a trained eye they sound exactly like the inexperienced kids on the forum that think they know a martial art. These same will advise on this forum as to how it is of utmost priority to obtain good training and find a valuable instructor. Am I to believe that they are the exception to the rule? I don't think so, especially not after reading what they have to say. And they know who they are.

I began training privately at 5 (my father was 2nd dan late 1960's). His sensei had 22 years exp. at the time and when I started with my instructor he had 28 yrs.exp) Moneymaking was not an issue back then and as life would have it neither of my current instructors are after making a dime. The advantage here its their way or the highway, very traditional

Now most instructors want contracts. Too much is at stake with proper training and disciplinary issues to worry about lawsuits and modern psychology has made many today into 'brats'.

The truth is that while finding the best instruction is good advice, nowadays it's very rare. If you're going to keep spamming (not you nwohioguy, you don't give the same answers all the time), the old and senile advice, they would do a greater service by asking "what discipline would you like to train in" and find out who's qualified to train in the area by throwing a name or two or putting money where their mouth is. There are a ton of people out there that are not going to just throw themselves into any art. I fell into my first discipline by default but my heart and soul went into researching the discipline that I chose later on.

Right now I feel that MA is really more about life conditioning. I really don't feel that taking MA for self defense is an appropriate reason; you have to love what you're doing, do it regularly and stay devoted to the art to gain self defense benefits. In other words 10 to 15 yrs min. Schools nowadays just don't train you enough mentally that way, especially to develop your fighting instincts and ki.

I know nothing of Krav maga but if what you want is self defense in a short time then do it. People nowadays are not devoted enough to martial arts to research, keep up the discipline, and recognize the magnificent advantages accessible to them through continued practice and experience.

[whitedevil]

Is karate still an effective way of defending oneself or now an outdated concept?

Now ask your self this. How can that many Asian people be wrong about self defense when their styles still exist today?