Violent vs Peaceful protest

[holden350chev]

In light of the work of "anarchists" in the last few weeks over student fees this is something I've been really wondering about.

Quick bit of backstory for non-uk mappers since I have no idea how well this is known; as part of spending cuts planned by our government has introduced a scheme in which fees paid by students to attend universities is going to shoot up by a lot to over 10 grand. Students are understandably not oer the moon about this and a couple of weeks ago a big protest took place in london that ended up having a couple of hundred people, by the looks of some of them not even students, attack a Conservative Party hq building. It was pretty tame as riots go but those couple hundred people got all the media attention and basically screwed the protest for those of us who protested with half a brain cell.

Now today another protest has happened but less big and without student union backing which last I looked has also gone south with stuff being thrown at police and police standing off with their batons out (presumably after complaints about lax police prescence at the last protest but will undoubtedly complain should a police officer use that baton. But I digress...)

Anyway I mention this because the protest today had a pretty cool scene where a police van was being attacked and students from a school in london circled the van and faced off the vandals, which I looked at as a sort of embodiment of peaceful v violent protest.

Now generally as much as I would enjoy smashing stuff I'm a pretty firm believer in peaceful protest and civil debate. I took part in the first protest and was royally pissed at the media's obsession with a bit of broken glass. However on the other hand I'm not convinced it works. Looking at the Iraq War protest millions of people turned out to that and it was clear public support was not there yet it happened anyway. Despite my personal feeligns towards the war that was a huge protest and was evidently ignored. There will undoubtedly be more protest about tuition fees but I see them being fruitless.

Violent protest is generally regarded as bad. I have a clear view on people attacking police officers and each other along with property since its just a stupid thing to do. At least morally thats true. However thinking back the only protest I've ever heard of that achieved anything in the last few decades was the poll tax riots. The Rodney King riots raised serious points about racism. It does seem that violence is what gets results because it makes people sit up and take notice. If I stood outside a building with a sign no one would bat an eyelid but if I put a bin through the building's window and set it on fire I'd probably end up on the news and people would start paying a lot more attention.

Is that simply a result of an irresponsible media, or is there truly something about violence that resonates with people more than millions of marching people? So is violence the only way the public can ever make themselves truly heard to a government?

[jobbend]

To play Devil's advocate:
Why does attacking property and the state-sponsored defenders of said property have to be morally wrong? Surely it's a case of what will actually get results as you said?

Peaceful protests are easy to ignore, yet violent protests are easy to denounce. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't

[nathansmommy88]

Depends on your view towards the state. Personally I prefer having a state over not having one but I'm not an authoritarian so I'm pretty cool with the damage part morally I just prefer rational discussion and debate over burning stuff altough the latter is a lot more fun.

For police I don't categorise thme as some faceless evil arm of state oppression or whatever I just see thme as guys doing their job and one thats invaluable at that so I look at attacking police officers the same as if they'd just started attacking random people in the area. Add to that that its still a career I'd like to pursue and I'm pretty defensive over the police


Easy to denounce but not to ignore, countries left right and centre are denouncing the Korea shellings but suddenly people are looking closer at them again and taking notice.

[SummerSweetheartPreteen]

I've seen both work and TBH most people are either one or the other. Best way to tell is to use a call centre for something important. Face to face it's suprising how often violence or the potential for it gets you your own way, I think it's written into government workers employment rules. People remember that the government folded with the poll tax riots, there's always the chance of a repeat if the cause the anarchists are the same as middle England.

Each to their own I guess

[nopeie]

I find the little spice of violence in the student protes to be quite invigorating actually. I think many people believe that their 'peaceful protest' will have no real effect, because when the government wants to do something, the government will do it. Simple as that. As Thomas Jefferson wrote, a government should be scared of its people. I found this little outvurst quite refreshing, as it was almost like the attendants there shouting out at the government, saying "We will fight for this".

[HiSLiTTLEHEART]

Smashing a few windows is one thing but chucking a fire extinguisher off a building is another. Unfortunatly you don't get one without the other. By their very mature anarchist groups supporting direct action are going to attract a high percentage of absolute nutters.

[jimmynokia]

I dont think that as you disagree with something that the Government has done gives anyone the reason to destroy anyones property / assault another human being.
I fully disagree with the tuition fees going up at such ridiculous levels as that would be the future of my children, but I'll never think of smashing up some other person's window or breaking the hand of a Police Officer or even dropping a large metal object of great height onto the head of an human being.

[DopeBoyMagic]

I might feel differently if I thought they were protesting against the fees but I'm pretty sure they just did it for the sake of doing it there was nothing political there.


Exactly. Me and my mates are ticked off at being further in debt but that doesn't present any logical reason to take it out on a police officer or especially to throw a large metal thing off a roof like a tit.

[RamanujaDasan]

I'm ticked off that all these teens are going to university at an age where they can't appreciate it properly, and often do wasted degrees or don't put the effort in. Would be much better to raise the age of enrollment, but still include all of the financial help.

In view of this, should I go start breaking windows at the student union?

[WolfH]

Wasn't it government property they destroyed? Once something like that starts people just get carried away. Good for the soul.